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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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The break in is a pain, but I do it for every brand new rifle. I'm not talking about a lot of new rifles...but went through the break in process 3x last year. All seemed to clean up easier after the break in process. . My point is "break-in" happens anyway during what might be called "normal" shooting, whether you shoot one shot and clean the bore, or 10-15 shots and clean the bore. So why go through the "pain"? Instead just shoot the rifle, and while finding out what it tends to prefer it's getting broken in anyway. Exactly what I do. Agreeđź’Ż
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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Campfire Ranger
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Preach it brother!
Common sense is just not common anymore, JB
“Live free or die. Death is not the worst of evils.” - General John Stark.
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Since most of my rifles were used when I bought them, break in was not an issue.
CRS, NRA Benefactor Life Member, Whittington Center, TSRA, DWWC, DRSS Android Reloading Ballistics App at http://www.xplat.net/
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Campfire Member
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My point is "break-in" happens anyway during what might be called "normal" shooting, whether you shoot one shot and clean the bore, or 10-15 shots and clean the bore. So why go through the "pain"? Instead just shoot the rifle, and while finding out what it tends to prefer it's getting broken in anyway.
So.....did I make a mistake in treating my bore with DBC on a brand new rifle? Should DBC be applied after shooting 10-20 (or 100) shots? I did notice that even with a brand new gun, there was copper and powder fouling in the bore, so it must have been shot at the factory, at least 1 or 2 shots. I cleaned it down to bare steel - verified by my borescope - then applied DBC. I haven't had an opportunity to get to the range yet and "cure" the DBC, but we'll see what happens. I figure that since the curing process takes 10-12 shots, I'll clean it after that, then continue for another 10-12 shots and see what it looks like.
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I have a buddy that I used to laugh at on my range. He would get a new sniper-class rifle (he was a police sniper) and go through a bunch of stupid procedures and then wondered why the shots would shift between cleanings. I kept telling him to knock it off and just shoot the damn thing! He would not believe me, but he had friend that works for I think Rock Creek? barrels. He told him that barrel makers love guys that clean like crazy, as they are sooner in search of a new barrel. He told him exactly what I told him and he has never done it since.
I just run a few patches with some Amsoil MP on it, down the barrel after hunting season is over, just to make sure there is a corrosion barrier, but that is it. All of my rifles are sub-moa and most are 1/2. On a new rifle, I just do the same thing to get out any residual grease, or shavings and go shoot. People make way too big of a deal out of barrel break-in. People that buy high-dollar rifles, should expect to be able to shoot them as they receive them and not worry about any goofy break-in.
You did not "seen" anything, you "saw" it. A "creek" has water in it, a "crick" is what you get in your neck. Liberals with guns are nothing but hypocrites.
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Joined: Jul 2001
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2001
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My point is "break-in" happens anyway during what might be called "normal" shooting, whether you shoot one shot and clean the bore, or 10-15 shots and clean the bore. So why go through the "pain"? Instead just shoot the rifle, and while finding out what it tends to prefer it's getting broken in anyway.
So.....did I make a mistake in treating my bore with DBC on a brand new rifle? Should DBC be applied after shooting 10-20 (or 100) shots? I did notice that even with a brand new gun, there was copper and powder fouling in the bore, so it must have been shot at the factory, at least 1 or 2 shots. I cleaned it down to bare steel - verified by my borescope - then applied DBC. I haven't had an opportunity to get to the range yet and "cure" the DBC, but we'll see what happens. I figure that since the curing process takes 10-12 shots, I'll clean it after that, then continue for another 10-12 shots and see what it looks like. DBC works fine on new barrels. Factories generally test-fire new rifles at least once, to make sure of several things. Have known a couple people, however, who assumed a new barrel would be perfectly clean, so didn't bother to clean it before DBC. Generally there will also be fouling after the curing shots, but if you clean it out the bore tends to acquire less fouling--and what there is comes out easier. The fouling also tends to decrease with more shooting, though sometimes a barrel needs a second application. Just clean the fouling out, degrease, and do it again. The reason I usually shoot new barrels before installing DBC is to see if the bore actual needs it. Some don't foul much without it, right from the get-go, both factory and custom. If so, I don't bother installing DBC.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.” John Steinbeck
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In engineering (itself a term which has a range of meanings) "burnishing' is smoothing a surface by rubbing it with something harder, using cold-working not abrasives as John Burns said. It smooths without removing material. Polishing is using an abrasive to remove material to achieve a smooth surface.
OK, thanks for that definition.
I have another question: How does shooting copper or copper-alloy bullets through a steel barrel amount to "smoothing a surface by rubbing it with something harder" ?
Ancillary question: what wears out the rifling with copper jacketed bullets passing through the bore repeatedly? Mainly heat and pressure. When you shoot a steel plate with a copper jacketed bullet, it will completely penetrate the steel. Isn't it possible for a softer metal to wear out a harder metal?
I was thinking the other day how much I used to hate Bill Clinton. He was freaking George Washington compared to what they are now.
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In engineering (itself a term which has a range of meanings) "burnishing' is smoothing a surface by rubbing it with something harder, using cold-working not abrasives as John Burns said. It smooths without removing material. Polishing is using an abrasive to remove material to achieve a smooth surface.
OK, thanks for that definition. I have another question: How does shooting copper or copper-alloy bullets through a steel barrel amount to "smoothing a surface by rubbing it with something harder" ? Short answer: it doesn't. Oh but it does..... an example is how a drop of water falling by gravity will eventually wear a hole thru stone, that same water under pressure will cut thru steel ,stone or most other materials, Have you never seen a dandelions grow up thru black top ?
Writing here is Prohibited by the authorities.
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I think barrels break in as you shoot them. Depending on the barrel they improve after maybe 50 to 100 times. After some 1,000’s shooting they start shooting worse, the number of rounds depend largely on a couple things. But I think the heat & number of rounds. As far as breaking in procedure I don’t have an opinion on whether or not a particular procedure helps.
I prefer classic. Semper Fi I used to run with the hare. Now I'm envious of the tortoise and I do my own stunts but rarely intentionally
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It amazes me that some think you can remove rough, tight, spots or whatever in a steel barrel by running 50-10 rounds if copper thru a barrel.
If some think so, take a fairly smooth flat piece of mild steel and measure the thickness with a 4 place micrometer. Then take some 400 grit carbide wet paper,rub it back and forth 100 times and measure the thickness of the steel steel again. It is darn hard to remove even .0002 from it. It's already been explained the process is not abrasion but burnishing. If you removed .0002 from a bore it would be oversized by .0004. We generally abrasively lap that much to achive consistant bore size but find zero dimensional changes to the bore from the break in. Surface finish is improved but not from a removal of material. The break in is a pain, but I do it for every brand new rifle. I'm not talking about a lot of new rifles...but went through the break in process 3x last year. All seemed to clean up easier after the break in process. . My point is "break-in" happens anyway during what might be called "normal" shooting, whether you shoot one shot and clean the bore, or 10-15 shots and clean the bore. So why go through the "pain"? Instead just shoot the rifle, and while finding out what it tends to prefer it's getting broken in anyway. Because we send out rifles that the break in process is finished and the end user won't see any change from the first round they fire to the end of barrel life. There is no searching for loads as all rifles shoot the same load to the same standard because all our barrels are the same.
It's not just "something harder" but I think we are on the same wave length..
A bullet at 65,000 psi is cold working the surface of the barrel and smooshing the surface finish of the bore.
No, it isn't LOL. Yes it is and understand I am used to nitrided barrels that are significantly harder than standard 416R or CM. When you shoot a steel plate with a copper jacketed bullet, it will completely penetrate the steel. Isn't it possible for a softer metal to wear out a harder metal?
While we are talking burnising for the break in it also should be noted that copper is a main ingredient in shaped charges for penatrating armour. Copper plasma cuts steel like a hot knife through butter.
John Burns
I have all the sources. They can't stop the signal.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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How is a plasma jet from a shaped charge relevant?
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How is a plasma jet from a shaped charge relevant? Because copper plasma exists in 65,000 PSI high pressure rifle round? Some were confused that a softer material, copper, could burnish much harder steel. It's a thing.
John Burns
I have all the sources. They can't stop the signal.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2001
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There's a chapter in GUN GACK III one barrel cleaning and "break-in." In it mention having known two gunsmiths with a reputation of making VERY accurate rifles, who both "pre-broke in" the barrels of the rifles they made with a bore brush with 0000 steel wool.
They put the brush on the front section of a break-down cleaning rod, then putting the rear of the rod in a drill motor. Then they put the brush into the throat section of the barrel, and "power-brushing" the throat for a few second. Both claim this does far more than one-shot-cleaning.
In my experience from shooting rifles from both smiths, this appears to be true. But maybe it's too simple a solution for those shooters who prefer more complex solutions.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.” John Steinbeck
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Not in the manner of a shaped charge. Firearms aren't subject to detonation shock waves.
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When you shoot a steel plate with a copper jacketed bullet, it will completely penetrate the steel. Isn't it possible for a softer metal to wear out a harder metal?
That is not a wear process. It is a point load, normal to the target.
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Oh but it does..... an example is how a drop of water falling by gravity will eventually wear a hole thru stone, that same water under pressure will cut thru steel ,stone or most other materials, Have you never seen a dandelions grow up thru black top ?
The droplets on the rock erode the rock chemically, usually by dissolved CO2 => carbonic acid. Not all rocks are susceptible. It is not a wear process. Water jet cutting of steel and other hard materials uses entrained abrasive, such as garnet, which actually does the work. Plants growing through blacktop find very narrow crevices and expand into them, parting them. Again, not a wear process.
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How is a plasma jet from a shaped charge relevant? Because copper plasma exists in 65,000 PSI high pressure rifle round? Some were confused that a softer material, copper, could burnish much harder steel. It's a thing. No, it doesn't, and no, it isn't. The shaped charge depends for its effect on focussing extreme pressure very tightly, normal to the surface of the armour. The effect is kinetic, as the charge causes a pressure higher than the UTS of the armour. Copper plasma isn't produced in firing a rifle cartridge. The effects would be singularly exciting if it was, at least if you were at a safe distance.
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How is a plasma jet from a shaped charge relevant? Because copper plasma exists in 65,000 PSI high pressure rifle round? Some were confused that a softer material, copper, could burnish much harder steel. It's a thing. No, it doesn't, and no, it isn't. The shaped charge depends for its effect on focussing extreme pressure very tightly, normal to the surface of the armour. The effect is kinetic, as the charge causes a pressure higher than the UTS of the armour. Copper plasma isn't produced in firing a rifle cartridge. The effects would be singularly exciting if it was, at least if you were at a safe distance. Cite your opinions. I'll wait. A bit. ![grin grin](/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/default/grin.gif)
Last edited by JohnBurns; 02/24/22.
John Burns
I have all the sources. They can't stop the signal.
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What Jordan said. Works great for me. My last two rifles were built by Gordy Gritters. Both rifles have Krieger barrels. Used the exact same break in Jordan used. Worked great. Have you ever tried just shooting a Krieger barrel, and cleaning it after every range session? Another thing I might mention is that I know more than one custom rifle maker (and even a couple of barrel makers) who included a "break-in procedure" on their website, just because so many customers (and potential customers) phoned or e-mailed asking for one. None of those guys believes in it, but they put one on their website just so they wouldn't have to waste time answering those e-mails and phone calls about why they didn't find break-in necessary. But whatever. Gordy told me to clean the barrel, fire ten rounds, then clean again. Break in done. I added the Dyna-Bore Coat after the "break in" on my most recent rifle from Gordy. I don't clean the bore after every range range session. I never have. I am probably too cleaning averse, but I do believe that many barrels are damaged by improper cleaning methods and/or cleaning too frequently/vigorously.
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That is not a wear process. It is a point load, normal to the target.
What? Forgive me, but I’ve never heard of that terminology. Velocity is what makes bullets penetrate steel. It’s actually the heat caused at impact
The people wringing their hands over Trump's rhetoric don't know what time it is in America.
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