Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Elk Hunting Small bores on elk?

Elk aren't bullet proof... shot placement goes a long way... I don't know if it is considered small bore or not.. but I'd have no problem going after Elk armed with a 6.5 mm any day.. 260, 6.5 x 55, 6.5 x 57, 6.5/06.... and I don't think you need the Mag versions...

I speak of taking a 650 lb cow elk once, with a 165 grain ballistic tip, out of an 06, but the MV was only 2250 fps....but at 175 yds, behind the shoulder, it penetrated all the way thru the lungs, and the liver.. she ran 50 to 60 yds and collapsed.. the bullet was found on the far side on the hide, not exiting, but stuck under the hide... the far lung and liver were turned into hamburger.. and the esophagus was cut in half...

now if those darn elk weren't so elusive every season...

So, get away from the 4-wheeler and walk after him till the angle works It's a thing called hunting, and a 243 works for that.....<'nuther grin>

think about this:

deer are killed all the time with small bores, often passing through.
deer have about 1.5-3" of muscle/bone protecting their lungs, which are not tough enough to even slow the bullet down.....who has recoverd a bullet in a lung?

elk have about 2.5-4" of muscle/bone between you and thier lungs.

why make a mountain range out of a speed bump?

I hunt wilderness areas, on foot, just for the record... I hunt hard.

All I was saying was that elk don't exactly stand there offering up shot angles. Not where I hunt them anyway. You get what you get. They are typically ghosting between the trees and you have to snap-shoot through the shooting lanes as they open up between the trees.

Maybe it's different elsewhere.

Guys can hunt elk with whatever they want; I don't care. But I have some very good reasons for NOT hunting 'em with a .243.

-jeff

What are the caliber minimums for elk in our Western States?

The problem is not if a small bore will kill an Elk, it will in the hands of a marksman. The problem is the rookies that make up the majority of the hunters in the woods that just fling bullets at them. Those hunters have a better chance of recovering their gut shot elk when they are using a 300WM vs a 243. Sad, but true.

The only way I could see a cure would be for the states to set larger minimum cals which in effect screws the die hard guys that use the smaller bore effectively but, you have to think about the animals as a whole IMO.

Reloader7RM

I think it varies from state to state... in Oregon, .243 is the minimum for elk and .223 for deer. Those are sensible minimums I suppose.

Just to be clear, I know without a doubt that a .243 will kill an elk cleanly. I think, though, that it needs to be in the hands of a careful, experience hunter and shooter, AND they need to not be "mad at 'em", in other words, killing an elk needs to not really be that important to them. There are plenty of people like that out there, who have killed a lot of elk or live where they are everywhere or have access to really good private land, and for them the rules of the game are a little different.

For those of us who really ARE mad at 'em, so to speak, who really want to kill an elk, a .243 is a poor choice for several reasons that we don't need to go into since we all know them anyway, right?

Now someone is gonna take that and run with it and imply that I think only a .375 RUM is enough gun... or accuse me of being a slob ATV hunter who never practices with his gun and has a small pecker to boot and is trying to make up for it with a big rifle... yawn...

-jeff

I completely agree, here in BC almost all Elk hunting on public land is confined to a minimum of six points to at least one side minimum and most bulls are shot in very thick cover in places where they can/do escape to die in deep ravines if not dropped quickly. I have seen this often and found dead, wasted Elk several times.

So, I much prefer a .338 WM with heavy, premium bullets and, for recoil-sensitive hunters, I consider the .30-06-180 premium bullet combo the best choice. Sure, I "could"hunt private ranches and cow/calf draws, but, I PREFER wild Elk by foot on public land and my .338s DO that BETTER then any small bore.

Under BC circumstances, I consider the .243 to be an inappropriate round for Elk and the 6.5-55 and 7-57 with 140s to 160s in Nosler Pts to be a good starting point. I will be going Elk-Deer-Grouse hunting in a few days, I will take my Dakota 76-.338WM-250NP, my Browning combo gun-12ga-.308W and one of my P-64 Fwt.-270s with 150 Nps to cover all bases.

pixarezzo,

Try telling that to my wife!

Anyone price vintage guitars lately?

jeff, Ive found that it matters not what you use as how you use what you have. My dad uses a 25/35 I use a 30/30 we hunt for meat. One of the best known outfitters in the Bob Marshall, Howard Copenhaver used a 25/35 for deer, elk, moose and griz. Private land or public land dont effect a guns performance. I guess when I get crippled up and cant get ahorseback any more I will shoot a haythief with a 22 so it wont pass thru and hit the stock. I will tip my hat to those that want to use a larger cal when in griz areas, what ever makes you safe. danny

BigSky56,

All true, but let's notice for a moment that you are hunting 'em in Montana, have killed a lot of elk, and probably are not going to lose any sleep if you have to pass on one because it's out of range for your 30-30, or it's not a shot angle you trust with your 30-30, right?

I'd be heartbroken if I was carrying a 30-30 and had to pass on a bull 400 yards away, which is a chip shot with my .338. So I carry the more capable rifle simply because, I guess, I'm more desperate and not willing to "handicap" myself and make it that much harder/less likely to kill an elk... talk to me in 20 years when I've killed a dozen or more elk and maybe I'll be singing a different tune (and carrying a .243!) :-)

-jeff

jeff, I think it can be rendered down to what style of hunting fits your hand.
I hunt dark timber ahorseback, ride roads and trails and shoot elk and deer 100 yds max most are 35 to 50 yds and going, coming, sideways or quartering I take the shot unless another animal is blocking my shot, most of the time they are bedded or asleep. When I hunt down Dillion way I ride the gullies and still hunt, its still 100 yds max. What Iam trying to impart is I know where the prey is or is going to be and thats where I hunt. Some times it will take a few days of guessing if they have moved in or the snow has pushed them into the areas I hunt but sooner or later they will be there.
The number one mistake most hunters make is not scouting their hunting areas, family and friends can get you close but a hunters feet have to hit the ground and learn the area, you have to know where they feed and bed and how they get to both and away from both when buggered. Every once in a while even a blind hog will find a acorn, I never turn down luck. Have a good season this year. danny

Guy - There are folks I would not recommend going after elk with a .25-06. You are not one of them. (Just stay off the mountain bike.) john

Good post; I edited it some.

My plan is to get up to the area we are hunting as much as a week ahead of time... if I can. It's a new unit to us, only 15 miles or so from the old unit but all of our little tricks and hotspots will be... 15 miles away! Problem is, the elk are not using our old unit anymore, not in any numbers, and not up in the wilderness area we hunt, because it burned 7 or 8 years ago and now is grown up in "Christmas trees" and is unfit for man or beast.

So I'm with you on the scouting! Looks like I'll be heading up alone, getting my half of the camp set up, scouting alone. Not so thrilled about that; it's tough country. But, I HATE going into this new country blind; there needs to be some serious scouting. At least there should be elk. Our old unit was frustrating- we/I knew just what the elk would do, how they'd move and why and when (at least as much as things can be known) but... with no elk it's kind of boring. And cold.

-jeff

Dark timber a horseback huh-you gotta have a different kind of dark timber that I hunt...

Dober

Mark dont they have roads and trails thru the timber on the east side.

Theres a gated road about 25 yds in the direction of camera up hill from this bull he died where he slept 10 am in a light rain rode right up on him. danny

I have no first hand experience using a small bore on elk so I won't comment on that either way. When my friend had some serious back problems right before our elk hunt he had a muzzle break added to his usual elk rifle. I don't really like muzzle breaks but it surely did the job, you can put up with it for a short time, it was fairly inexpensive and when his back was better he just put a cap over the threads on the barrel and resold the break at the gun shop. Unfortunately that muzzle break didn't allow him with his bad back to pack out his share of the elk!

Nice elk Danny. I'm going to carry a 30-30 some this year just because I picked up a nice old Savage combination gun in 30-30/20 gauge and want to get it out. I see lot's of grouse in the woods and not so many elk.

Danny-yepper we have roads and trails on this side, hell we even have some timber...grins

I've never heard anyone calling it "hunting the dark timber" when they were walking/driving and or riding down them however....

Road hunting via a nag-hmm perhaps there's a story in there some where?...grins

Seriously, when the term "dark timber" comes up I always think of the kinds of hell holes that you crawl in more than walk. Places like this you go into what Brad and I call "predator mode". These kinds of places are not places one will be riding a pony. That is what we call hunting the "dark timber".

In all honesty I wouldn't call riding/walking/driving down a road or trail thru the timber as hunting the "dark timber" but that is just me. Now I would call it taking a ride on a mtn road and or something to the such but I wouldn't call it hunting the dark timber.

Make it your best day!

Dober

Having worked my entire life in the woods,I am curious what Dark Timber is? I tried Google and couldn't find an answer.I know I am missing something but I am curious...Are there signs saying entering Dark Timber?

Joking aside..The man I know that has shot more Elk than anyone I know,uses a 25-06.Hell,it can't work,can it?The very most Elk I have seen killed with a single caliber is the .270 but that was just what we used in those days.

Dark Timber..Interesting.Wonder where that term came from?

Jayco

Boy, you know it when you are in it, I'll tell you that! Dark... timber... dark timber!

I tend to love it because heck, that's what my deer hunting is like most of the time, over here on the wet side of the Cascades going after blacktails. I do well in thick stuff, moving slow.

-jeff