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Joined: Apr 2011
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 15,319 Likes: 3 |
The guy who heavily promoted the .243 and .244 in the 1950's, and used them extensively, years later concludes that for African plains game you should restrict their use to no more than 200 lb animals. His 7mm Mashburn was better for the 200lb plus African plains game. With the bullets available back then, that was pretty solid advice. 105 grain Speers were used mostly. And one more thing, he was National Benchrest champion...so there goes the argument of "you just need good bullet placement" down the drain. What does that have to do with what I said. Being a BR champion means very little in regards to bullet performance and I’d put any TTSX, PT up against the old 105 Speer all day long. The bullets that were used is directly relevant to what was being said. The fact that he was National Benchrest champion is an indicator that he was probably a good shot on game as well, but it is not conclusive. However, others at the time who hunted with Page have independently verified what an excellent shot he was on game. That being the case, what I said about there goes the argument that you just need good bullet placement is supported. Gotcha. I agree with that. But mostly, I hunt with what I want and mostly make good choices. A good one that’ll change a lot of folks mind is the 77 TMK in a 22-250 or 223 on deer. If you can tell it apart from a 280 or even my 7 Mashburn Super you’re definitely better than I.
Semper Fi
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Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 2,224
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 2,224 |
[/quote] A hole through the airbags is a hole through the airbags, IMO.
Give me something north of 3000 fps, preferably something 3400 or more with a 22 caliber and stuff dies rather quickly.
Especially with a 55 grain Sierra Gameking. The 60 grain Nosler Partition is about as fast killing. This in cartridges from 223 to 220 Swift.
Same with every step up in caliber but once you get over about .264 combined with 3000+ fps it gets pretty rough on deer sized game.[/quote]
I agree with this except I believe anything over .257 gets rough on deer sized game. Especially here in Texas. Our deer are small. When I use my 25-06 for a shoulder shot on deer, you might as well throw the front quarters to the dogs because that 25-06 tears up too much meat. I’ve been using a 220 Swift with that 60 grain Nosler partition and it does a fine job on our little deer.
Last edited by Edwin264; 04/04/22.
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Joined: Mar 2006
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Campfire Member
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OP
Campfire Member
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 156 |
I just finished reading "how to bag the biggest buck of your life" by Larry Benoit. Larry advocates for shooting into the ribcage, and not into the shoulder. And he's a guy that shot BIG bucks, 200-250 pounders. He wrote that he does not want to destroy meat unnecessarily. He says shooting into the rib cage works perfectly effectively, while preserving great shoulder meat.
Jack
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Joined: Apr 2003
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 6,840 |
I just finished reading "how to bag the biggest buck of your life" by Larry Benoit. Larry advocates for shooting into the ribcage, and not into the shoulder. And he's a guy that shot BIG bucks, 200-250 pounders. He wrote that he does not want to destroy meat unnecessarily. He says shooting into the rib cage works perfectly effectively, while preserving great shoulder meat. Very true, but sometimes local conditions dictate that a buck be dropped "right there" and even a 30 or 40 yard death run can be problematic.
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 6,860 Likes: 2
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 6,860 Likes: 2 |
Years ago, I built a 250-3000 for my three sons on a Win 70 Compact action, they killed upwards of ten deer with that rifle, typically 100 yards or less, all one shot kills with Rem factory 100 PSP ammo. I could not be more impressed the 250-3000 for killing deer and easy on the shooter too. What I consider an ideal "young hunters" deer cartridge.
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 32,228
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 32,228 |
I just finished reading "how to bag the biggest buck of your life" by Larry Benoit. Larry advocates for shooting into the ribcage, and not into the shoulder. And he's a guy that shot BIG bucks, 200-250 pounders. He wrote that he does not want to destroy meat unnecessarily. He says shooting into the rib cage works perfectly effectively, while preserving great shoulder meat. The Benoits and Berniers were snow trackers, so a blood trail was much easier to follow. The were also pump gun shooters, so they probably kept shooting as long as the deer was in sight and there were cartridges in the magazine of their Remington 760/7600s. Bright red blood on white snow is easy to follow.
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 44,872 Likes: 5
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 44,872 Likes: 5 |
Years ago, I built a 250-3000 for my three sons on a Win 70 Compact action, they killed upwards of ten deer with that rifle, typically 100 yards or less, all one shot kills with Rem factory 100 PSP ammo. I could not be more impressed the 250-3000 for killing deer and easy on the shooter too. What I consider an ideal "young hunters" deer cartridge. I'm not young or small anymore, but I do love my 700 Classic in 250-3000.
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Joined: Aug 2021
Posts: 1,653
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Aug 2021
Posts: 1,653 |
I just finished reading "how to bag the biggest buck of your life" by Larry Benoit. Larry advocates for shooting into the ribcage, and not into the shoulder. And he's a guy that shot BIG bucks, 200-250 pounders. He wrote that he does not want to destroy meat unnecessarily. He says shooting into the rib cage works perfectly effectively, while preserving great shoulder meat. This is exactly the same argument that Jack O'Connor used when recommending a .270 with 130 grain bullets through the ribcage, as opposed to those such as Elmer Keith who recommended a bigger and heavier caliber through the shoulders. The counter argument to O'Connor was that they run more when shot behind the shoulder and you might not find them, and that you can't often get that 'behind the shoulder" shot in thicker cover such as in Idaho where Keith did much of his hunting (usually for bigger game on average), as opposed to the desert areas such as in Arizona and Sonora where O'Connor did much of his hunting in the early days.
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Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 584
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Mar 2019
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IF you like chasing wounded animals shoot them with small calibers. Plenty of asshats do.
""Mute the Greeniacs. Open the pipeline. Bury the Russians." - JPR - 2022
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 78,304 Likes: 2
Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 78,304 Likes: 2 |
IF you like chasing wounded animals shoot them with small calibers. Plenty of asshats do. Yet more internet gold!
"...the left considers you vermin, and they'll kill you given the chance..." Bristoe
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Joined: May 2021
Posts: 77
Campfire Greenhorn
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Campfire Greenhorn
Joined: May 2021
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IF you like chasing wounded animals shoot them with small calibers. Plenty of asshats do. Nice hat in your avatar....
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 24,652 Likes: 1
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 24,652 Likes: 1 |
I just finished reading "how to bag the biggest buck of your life" by Larry Benoit. Larry advocates for shooting into the ribcage, and not into the shoulder. And he's a guy that shot BIG bucks, 200-250 pounders. He wrote that he does not want to destroy meat unnecessarily. He says shooting into the rib cage works perfectly effectively, while preserving great shoulder meat. I enjoyed that myself and admire the heck out of the way they (Benoits) go about things. But folks need to read betwixed the lines when it comes to tracking and putting down bucks and the "wait for the front leg to move forward or the animal to turn perfectly broadside" crowd would surely take serious offense.
WWP53D
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Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 15,319 Likes: 3
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 15,319 Likes: 3 |
I just finished reading "how to bag the biggest buck of your life" by Larry Benoit. Larry advocates for shooting into the ribcage, and not into the shoulder. And he's a guy that shot BIG bucks, 200-250 pounders. He wrote that he does not want to destroy meat unnecessarily. He says shooting into the rib cage works perfectly effectively, while preserving great shoulder meat. I enjoyed that myself and admire the heck out of the way they (Benoits) go about things. But folks need to read betwixed the lines when it comes to tracking and putting down bucks and the "wait for the front leg to move forward or the animal to turn perfectly broadside" crowd would surely take serious offense. You aren’t kidding. I know some folks will get wadded up but if you can get them leaking on snow they’re usually recoverable. The use 30-06’s and 270’s cause that’s what they have found the most of in Rem 7600’s.
Semper Fi
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,800
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,800 |
I just finished reading "how to bag the biggest buck of your life" by Larry Benoit. Larry advocates for shooting into the ribcage, and not into the shoulder. And he's a guy that shot BIG bucks, 200-250 pounders. He wrote that he does not want to destroy meat unnecessarily. He says shooting into the rib cage works perfectly effectively, while preserving great shoulder meat. The Benoits and Berniers were snow trackers, so a blood trail was much easier to follow. The were also pump gun shooters, so they probably kept shooting as long as the deer was in sight and there were cartridges in the magazine of their Remington 760/7600s. Bright red blood on white snow is easy to follow. +1. They are legendary in the Northern New England Woods. I've read that book many times, and others by and about them.
Carry what you’re willing to fight with - Mackay Sagebrush
Perfect is the enemy of good enough
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Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 2,224
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 2,224 |
I just finished reading "how to bag the biggest buck of your life" by Larry Benoit. Larry advocates for shooting into the ribcage, and not into the shoulder. And he's a guy that shot BIG bucks, 200-250 pounders. He wrote that he does not want to destroy meat unnecessarily. He says shooting into the rib cage works perfectly effectively, while preserving great shoulder meat. I enjoyed that myself and admire the heck out of the way they (Benoits) go about things. But folks need to read betwixed the lines when it comes to tracking and putting down bucks and the "wait for the front leg to move forward or the animal to turn perfectly broadside" crowd would surely take serious offense. I'm sure people will always take offense to something. A lot of people base what they believe off of their experiences. I prefer to shoot broadside and break both shoulders due to the fact that I've seen whitetail deer do some amazing things when shot. I helped my father in law track a deer for 200 yards one time that was shot behind the shoulder with a 308. I gutted the deer and it had no heart or lungs. That's why I like to break at least one of the front legs if not both.
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Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 2,224
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 2,224 |
IF you like chasing wounded animals shoot them with small calibers. Plenty of asshats do. Never chase a wounded animal that i personally shot with anything bigger than a .223, just sayin partner
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 224
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 224 |
Years ago, I built a 250-3000 for my three sons on a Win 70 Compact action, they killed upwards of ten deer with that rifle, typically 100 yards or less, all one shot kills with Rem factory 100 PSP ammo. I could not be more impressed the 250-3000 for killing deer and easy on the shooter too. What I consider an ideal "young hunters" deer cartridge. "My three sons.... sorry I could not resist https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0053525/charlee
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 42,843 Likes: 6
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 42,843 Likes: 6 |
I have a good buddy who lives in Billings...
I got to meet one of his local friends, whose Grandma was with him one morning when we had breakfast together. She was Indian and lived on one of those reservations up around where Sam Olsen from the campfire lives.. NE Montana...
old gal was 4 ft 10 inches tall ( or short)... lives on the Rez and pretty much most of the meet she has ever eaten, was game animals.. she can shoot them year round on the Rez evidently.... she has owned one game rifle here entire life.... a 22.250 Remington...
Her favorite game meat is elk.... she pretty takes one, out in the yard when they are grazing or into the hay....when the freezer is getting low... factory 55 grain ammo...uses a window sill for a rest.... pulls the trigger and calls one of her grandkids to come over and gut it for her... and then have it taken to where ever they process it....
she does take deer and antelope also.. but prefers elk meat the most...
no one ever told her that a 22.250 won't work on elk.. she just shoots them from the house within a 100 to 150 yds or so.. and gets on the telephone to let the grandkids come over to take care of the rest...she figured long ago about bullet placement and where that would be on an elk evidently....
she is not guilty of having plenty of them walk off wounded....
people who are rural and don't listen to, or read what 'experts' say all the time... seem to do pretty darn okay out there....
My step grandmother in WVa use to shoot deer out the window of her place when she needed more venison, she just asked her son Benny to bring over his 22.250 for her to borrow...she could shoot that...
Benny had his wife Gloria's family up every year from Florida to hunt in WVa in deer season.... Benny tells of the one season they all skunked... on the last day of open season, they come home all pissed off from skunking. She tells them there is a dead buck on the opposite end of their property, under the apple tree.... its across 5 acres worth of field from the house... they send one of his nephews up to the apple tree, which is uphill from the house...not believing Gloria...
the kid comes back with his pants on fire, with there is a dead deer up there under the tree...
Benny asked her what the hell did she shoot it with.... the only gun you left in the house.. that one over there... the 22.250...
shot it off the window sill.... when asked where she shot it at... her response, was you told me that this gun wasn't that good for a deer so I shot it in the head, where you said it would quickly kill it... I aimed at the eyeball.... they got up there and it had been hit in the eyeball....
other than that, a 22.250 would never kill a deer either.. just blind luck.. everyone knows that... see what I did there with the blind luck comment?
"Minus the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the Country" Marion Barry, Mayor of Wash DC
“Owning guns is not a right. If it were a right, it would be in the Constitution.” ~Alexandria Ocasio Cortez
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Joined: Oct 2004
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Oct 2004
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You can tell who has used a modern 22 caliber bullet on deer and who hasn't. Those that have know that they work and work well.
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Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 4,700 Likes: 6
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 4,700 Likes: 6 |
Anyone in the northern woods found with a 223 chasing a 300 lb mature buck would be in for a rough time. Louisiana maybe not.
The way life should be.
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