Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Handguns +P ammo how much better

How much better are the results of using +P handgun ammo? Looking online at +P specs of factory ammo and reloading data, the velocity gain doesn't seem much more.

It depends. Sometimes you're actually better off with standard pressure, as the +P can cause excess expansion, and lack of penetration. For example, the standard pressure Federal HST 9mm loads actually perform better in ballistic gelatin tests than do their +P versions for this reason. Faster isn't always better.

I'll opt for the better barrier penetration of a +P round, especially against an attacker wearing heavy clothing such as a leather jacket, or multi layers, etc.

A lot of it depends on the bullet design and barrel length.

Like TRH said, the HST performance window is optimized for more or less standard pressure velocity.

If you run a short 3" barrel, maybe the +P would have an advantage velocity-wise, if the blast/recoil are not too much.

The XTP hollow points seem a little 'harder' and may do well at a bit higher velocity. Then the monolithics, like the Lehigh Xtreme Defender will generally penetrate deeper and have a bigger wound channel at higher velocity as they do not rely on expansion at all.

The very reason i backed my 180gr HST's down to 1050 off of 1200 fps, one the other side of the coin a bud told me about lucky gunner site, went and had a look at 38 special gel tests for Moms revolver, +p's expanded sometimes, some standard 38's did not, even hollow points, and for sure the same bullets at 357 mag velocities did very well, all that said i just load a Keith 158gr [actually 164gr] bullet at 900 fps for her, it's going to drill a damn deep hole.

I think people worry WAY too much about ammo.

+P in most cartridges is about increasing barrier penetration, not terminal soft tissue performance. If you feel your standard 9mm, which often out-penetrates a .44 mag, needs greater barrier penetration then +P is one way to get it (all else being equal).

+P just means more speed. There is no exact science as to how much more speed, or whether that additional speed will improve a projectile's terminal performance.

Speed is typically a good thing, but you want hollow points to (1) penetrate, and (2) expand. The "right" speed to do both (penetrate and expand) is different for each individual bullet. Drive a particular bullet too slow or too fast and it might not penetrate or it might not expand. You can get a 10mm (a faster chambering) and a.38 Special (a slower chambering) to do both, but each given projectile has to exit the barrel at the correct speed for that projectile. Speed depends on a variety of factors, including barrel length.

I do a fair amount of reading on this subject, and it seems that shooters overlook barrel length too frequently. We buy our self-defense ammo, based on the "fact" that "it's good ammo." However, the testing on which we base our decision might have been done through a 4.5" barrel and our gun has a 2" barrel. If we were to obtain data on that brand of ammo shot out of a 2" barrel we might discover that the results are likely to be significantly different!

I don't handload my self defense ammo--not because I think there is any increase in my potential legal jeopardy, but because I would have no clue how well my projectile would penetrate and expand. Instead I try to find some testing results where the testing procedures appear to be based at least somewhat in good science, AND the ammo was tested through a pistol of the same barrel length as mine. (Lucky Gunner did some .38 Special tests, firing the same ammo through 4" and 2" barrels. Often the differences were fairly miniscule, but sometimes they were more significant. Sometimes penetration out of a 2" gun was 3 inches less than out of a 4" gun.) It's the best that I can do without engaging in my own testing.

I get that people criticize various testing methods. Some people hate/like clear gel. Some hate/like all gels. Some hate/like Paul Harrel's "meat targets." Some hate/like water jugs. Some hate/like particular clothing barriers. Some hate/like using wood as a substitute for bone. And on and on...ad nauseum.

I rely mainly on the testing done by Lucky Gunner, mostly because I can compare a lot of types of ammo, shot through the appropriate barrel length.

I recommend that everyone watch what representatives from Federal say about bullet terminal performance. It's worth the 13 minutes. Really.

"If you feel your standard 9mm, which often out-penetrates a .44 mag"


LMFAO.........

Funny, but I've seen 9mm 147gr FP hardcast tested in ballistic gel. But I've never seen 44mag 300+gr WFN hardcast tested in ballistic gel. Yes, 9mm 147gr hardcast FP penetrates very well but I can't say that it out penetrates heavy 44mag.

It doesn't out penetrate the 44 mag. I have 20% clear ballistics gel and the 147 grain +P flat point hard cast will penetrate 22". The 230 grain semi wadcutter 41 mag penetrates more and so does the 44 mag
If he would have said that some loads that are soft
in the 44 can be out penetrated by certain 9mm load then I'd buy that. But the claim of often nope not true

Sorry... Let me be more specific. In ballistic gelatin 9mm hardball out-penetrates a std 240gr JHP. Yeah, not apples to apples there.

Like I said above it has to be a soft 44 mag bullet VS a hard 9mm bullet.
I actually have 20%clear ballistics gel and do not rely on second hand info

That was a dumb thing to write… because it was a memory that only I remember.

Back in the early ‘90’s I was working with a teaching hospital to do some ballistics research that would eventually be for their trauma classes. One day we tested a bunch of FMJ’s, and at the end of the day someone had a 4” .44 mag with a 240gr JHP that he wanted to shoot into one of the leftover blocks. Everyone (but me) was amazed it wasn’t the big penetrator of the day, and all were surprised that the lowly 9mm out-penetrated the mighty .44. Yeah, it made sense in my head…would have made sense to ya’ll had you been there that day. Sorry ‘bout that.

The 240 grain Remington SJHP is a super expanding bullet, but not a great penetrating bullet

That's my recollection as well, haven't used that load in decades though. I don't actually recall which load he had that day, but for some reason my brain always goes to that load...But as we have seen...sometimes my brain goes to weird places. I'm still laughing at myself for that. Wish I could say it was because I was drunk...no, I'm just a dork!!!

Ammo today is much better than it was 20-30 years ago. The companies that are going after the police contracts generally are designing their standard pressure and +P ammo to both meet the exact same performance specs. Even ammo that misses one or more of the 6 protocols usually only misses by an inconsequential margin. If you go here you can check out ammo in duty calibers that provides links to FBI protocol test results performed with the ammo.

I am fine with standard pressure 124 grain Gold Dots in my 9mms.

I'll take +P anyday

With the more modern pistols, +P is the way to go. With pistols that were designed prior to the creation of the 124gr NATO, stick to the standard pressure stuff.

I carry Winchester 115gr Silvertips in my SIG P365 and Speer 124gr Gold Dots in my S&W EZ 9.

This is one of the most comprehensive tests I've seen for .38 special and .357 Magnum. They test both standard and +P rounds well as through 2" and 4" barrels. They also provide images of expansion and test results through ballistic gel. This will give you an idea of the difference barrel length has on velocity as well pressure differences regarding penetration:

https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/revolver-ballistics-test/