Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Do groups really matter in hunting rifles?

This isn't an question say proving a load of an particular zero isn't of merit or even for recreation, but do these groups we see and obcess about mean very little afield in real world conditions. I mean it's one thing to verify on a flat static range and quite another to go out on foot unsupported and apply our sighted in rifle and load.

Lately I've been practicing lots of dry fire, practicing at the range and other locations afield in field and unsupported conditions or situations. The confirmation of accuracy is nice but once all that is established its really becoming meaningless when the limiting factor is me and my ability or lack thereof. I can shoot and drop a bomb at an extremely long distance quite well but I'm going for making myself field familiar and being able to do high percentage shots and being familiar with the equipment used.

Again, this isn't to infer that any time shooting off a bench is wasted but in the current economy and state of things I think the maximum benefit is to do lots of position and field practice and familiarity drills and really it doesn't much matter if that means 2moa, 1.5moa or 1/2moa

Interesting question, and in my tiny little opinion…not much. Yes, an inherently accurate rifle is a great tool, but to the unskilled, or incapable it’s potential may never be realized. A crappy, shaky shooter will not benefit from a 3/8” rifle, any more than someone’s elderly relative would benefit from driving a Ferrari or Porsche. This is not a knock on older drivers or shooters who can’t produce tiny groups, it’s just a simple take on reality. Heck, most times I can’t produce tiny groups when I shoot any more, so I don’t obsess for them. Practical hunting situations don’t really warrant the need anyway, but good for those out there that can still thread a bullet through the eye of a needle. Happy shootin either way!

Rifle shooting tiny groups off the bench can give some confidence to the hunter. Hopefully not overconfidence.

The tighter it shoots off the bench might make the hunter feel like even if he gets the shakes it will not matter that much.

I want to know that my rifle will shoot to the same place every time ,even if it just shoots a 1 1/2 group.

Yes, if there's a chance that a second or third shot might be needed. I mostly use single shots, but tight groups do boost my confidence.

The first cold barrel shot on target is the most important. 2nd and 3 rd shots that print close tell you that the gun can give you repeatable accuracy which leaves it up to you to perform. No getting around those things period. ...mb

Yessir!

I always figure it is nice to have small groups, but also figure a person who can use a 2-inch rifle effectively is better off than a person who can't use a 1/2-inch rifle effectively.

Exactly, Carlos Hathcock's sniper rifle was a 2 MOA rifle and he used it to great effect

Exactly. Kinda what I'm getting at. I'm working on having a particular rifle setup and really learning it. It's my weakness and an area I'm adressing

All that counts to me ^ ^ ^
I pretty much only hunt.
Maybe if I tried to shoot competitively
or something those follow up shots
might be more important to me

One of my deficiencies has been proper bolt manipulation and followup beside just accuracy. I really like single shots but now that I'm learning about bolt action rifles practicing bolt manipulation and follow thru are indeed important. The small group isn't the only end all be all. It inspires perhaps confidence at certain distance and but it still needs to be applied. Just sayin' I see where I personally lack and need to improve.

Interesting. I'm not disputing this but where did the information come from? This is the first time I've read this.

My small opinion: If you hunt, then you are student of the art of shooting, whether you like it or not. And if you are a practitioner of shooting, you will be shooting 2nd and 3rd shots, as MagnumBob points out.

This isn't necessarily written to imply that chasing 1/4 moa groups should be your goal, but rather that being able to REPEAT CONSISTENTLY, that which you are capable of with your rifle...is the goal. <---That statement squares and settles the legitimacy of the relationship between the shooter and the rifle. I'll add that target practice and hunting game with a rifle is squarely opposed to claims that they are mutually exclusive, which is to say that there is a relationship there that cannot be undone. No one has claimed that just yet, but I thought it prudent to observe.

Where I live in western SD it isn't unusual to draw an antelope license every year, sometimes that license has 2 tags. Getting a license good for any antelope is about every other year. I like antelope and eating them. So I put in for the tag I want 1st and 2nd choice is allways for a tag I can get. When I have a 2 tag license I find the bunch with the buck I want and make my stalk. Rested prone, bipod, x sticks or pack I wait for the shot I want on the buck. After the shot I am instantly reloaded. Sometimes at the shot the herd spooks and runs off 1 to 200 yards stops to look for the one I shot or to see what the danger was and I'll shoot the second one. In the last 40 years or so I've done this 8 times . It isn't luck it is being ready and having a rifle that has good repeatable accuracy. 3 shot groups from your rifle that are good is a necessity. If you can't shoot 3 times in 4-5 seconds and get a decent group don't even try on animals. So 4 and 5 shot groups are somewhat meaning less to me...mb

Depends, a prairie dog rifle, then yes. Beating the brush and shooting off hand at a running deer, not so much.

Bug hole groups are nice. Who doesn't love braggin rights?
I'll take a hunting rifle that consistantly puts POI at POA on the cold shot any day.

It seems to me that the better question is: can you make the shot with certainty? To answer that you need a good knowledge of your capacity from the positions you'll use, with the gear you use, under conditions that are likely to apply in the field. Having a rifle which will put them all through the same hole from a benchrest may help, but it sometimes seems that people put all the emphasis on that and little on the practice from the positions they'll actually use, including quickly getting into a good position and taking the shot without delay. There's also the discipline to stay within your limits. You can improve the odds by getting closer or getting into a better position.

FWIW I have rifles that will shoot small groups. I have others which won't, such as a double which shoots 4 shots into about 2 1/2 moa (which is pretty good for a double). I have killed a fair number of big animals with that rifle nonetheless. Some were moving pretty fast, and some might have done me a mischief. In those moments the rifle's performance on paper didn't matter a bit.

Source?

Major Land, Carlos commanding officer in Vietnam