Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Handguns Handgun Choice for Flyfishing in Bear Country

A close friend who frequently fly fishes in northern New Mexico has only ever carried bear spray for the chance encounter with bears. Just this weekend he asked for my help in selecting a handgun, which is his only consideration given the need for portability and handiness while fishing. First of all, he's not a gun guy so he will need some instruction and practice (don't we all?).

Having read plenty on various forums and online articles, here would be my guidance:

• Stainless 4" DA revolver in either .44M or .45LC (w/ Ruger-only hardcast/+P loads).
• S&W 629, 625, 625MG or Redhawk should work fine
• Blue guns would also work but just thinking maintenance would be less in and around water/rain.

Availability wise, .44 Magnums seem to be more plentiful and slightly cheaper than equivalent .45LC DA.
Since he does not reload, he could buy bear loads from Underwood or Buffalo Bore if using .45LC.
Factory .44M solids should be fine.

I'm sure there are many opinions so I'll just ask, are there other recommendations to consider? Is .357M a viable alternative?

Get a hold of McKay Sagebrush. He'll set you up.

Sorry I don’t follow. Searched members for McKay Sagebrush. Nuttin.

It’s Mackay Sagebrush.

Tell your friend to buy a Glock 20, in 10mm if he ever plans to fly fish in Grizz Country.

Otherwise, as in Northern NM, even a .44 Spec or 357 mag, or 45 acp will work for Black Bears. With the right ammo. They are not hard to kill.

Be careful about who answers about griz protection when you listen to people that don't live or fish griz country.

I have lived with griz all my life, killed 2 and seen dozens.

I carry what ever I have with me and bear spray to season the carcass.

Intentionally in griz country, I will carry a Smith and Wesson 686 Plus. Any gun you have on your person, you had better be proficient with it and be able to deploy it in a fraction of a second.

Is there a better choice in handguns? Yes, there is not a single "Best" gun out there, but you do need to be able to hit small targets when you are $hitting your pants, or you may become bear crap...

Good suggestion. But given his locale and lack of interest in firearms, he might be better off with 9mm (G19) which he can stuff with 147gr hardcast if he wants to drill holes through a black bear.

Heavy hardcast bullets you can control in a 9mm are better than anything else in something you can't. I've carried multiple different large bore (well, 44 up to 500) over the years and have gone to carrying a 10MM with hard cast bullets.

I am about to do a production run of .45 Colt tomorrow.

That said, here are a few pointers. I have participated in LOTS of bear drills at a gathering of industry people.





Without writing too lengthy of a dissertation, I will just skip to the punchline. DO NOT buy Ruger Only type loads. This is pretty much a guaranteed recipe for failure under stress. In observing lots of quite experienced handgun shooters, far less than 10% could handle Ruger only loads under pressure and get accurate hits in a timely manner which is what you need. Roughly 95% of the guys who bring full power 300 + grain .44 Mag, .45 Colt, 454s etc, fail, miserably.

The guys who pass with revolvers are generally shooting mid level loads. 1,000 FPS and under loads in grain weight of 240/250/270 and up to 300. But beyond that the wheels fall off.

And these are experienced shooters.

For a neophyte (if they insist on a revolver) I would recommend something like a 270 grain .45 Colt at 900 FPS. Plenty of power, yet still controllable with practice. Or a .44 Magnum/.44 Special with a 240 grain slug in the same velocity range, up to 1K FPS.

For an Auto, (such as a .45 ACP) a heavy 250 grain flat point works well for deep penetration and is much easier to shoot quickly. I have tested these +P loads on steer heads and gotten complete penetration.

I tend to carry a 1911 .45 frequently in black and grizz country.






However, even a heavy .45 auto load such as the ones above takes some practice to shoot precisely/effectively due to the recoil it generates.

Most people shoot a semi auto substantially better than they do a revolver when it comes to putting accurate rounds on a target quickly. If you put someone on a timer and give them a 2.5 second par time, they are far more likely to get multiple accurate hits with a semi auto than with a revolver. It is the hits that will matter.

Based on the fact that he wants to get hits on target, a 9mm with heavy penetrating loads like these:













Would be a good choice.

The punchline:

If I was going to hand a gun to a true novice (with little to no handgun experience or handling a gun in a stressful situation) going into bear country, it would be a Glock 9mm with these heavy hardcast loads. They are deep penetrating loads, and are substantially easier to control than most loads people normally associate with the task.

These 148 grain hard cast flat points penetrate very deep and straight, and the recoil is quite manageable. They would be a good choice, and a Glock (or S&W M&P) would be an easy button when it comes to guns. They are easy to maintain and getting them wet is no big deal.

Hope this helps.

I see while I was typing this a couple other guys said the same thing about the 9mm (and heavy hardcast).

The 22" penetration in the 20% gell would be about 36.74" in 10% ballistics gel

4” barreled 629. I don’t trust semi-autos.

A most informative post MacKay! Especially about user proficiency with +P loads under duress.

I have zero experience in bear habitat here in SC except for Smoky Mountain trout streams so it gives me more confidence in carrying a 625MG with 950fps hardcast or my G17 g5. Admittedly I don’t have any LNFP ammo, only Gold Dots, etc.

I will also be shopping for .45ACP LNFP for my TRP and 4566! Suggestions welcomed.

As for my NM friend, I was steering away from semis to avoid the magazine and chambered round learning curves but with Glocks or M&Ps (no safety model) the investment has to be worth the advantages stated. So I will rethink that with him depending on his initial range trips. A second hand G17 or maybe G21SF are definite possibilities.

This is the best Glock 19 knock-off out there, and this is an exceptional deal.

https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa...term=morning&utm_content=51655128277


The mags alone are worth north of $100

He doesn’t need to buy an optic for it. Just load and go.

A friend has one and really likes it.

How durable is it? I dunno, but few people will shoot a pistol to failure. I have a Glock 19 with probably 20K rounds on it and it’s still going strong.

Have him get 10 boxes of 9mm and learn to shoot.

Slow is smooth, smooth is fast

Only hits count

Don’t shot fast, shoot good.

If the bear is close enough to bite you, he’s close enough for hits. Keep shooting until you run out and then reload.

Then, load him up with a few mags of Mackay’s hardcast 9mm rounds and he’ll be as ready as a new shooter could be.

BTW, two mags isn’t just about reloads. If he loses his primary mag while out tramping about, the second mag becomes like gold.

Ask me how I know.

Do you cast the 45 bullets yourself? What mould do you use? Will the flat point bullets also work in a standard issue Colt 1911A1?

My daughter often hikes alone (well, with her 2 dogs) here in Montana. Even though at the range she can handle everything up to and including my 454, my concern is as Mackay stated above about control and hits on target while under extreme stress. Consequently, I bought some of MacKay's loads he mentioned above for her 9mm.

I remember a story about one of our well known Alaska Bear and Fishing Guides using his 9mm S&W auto and the Buffalo Boar Hard Cast Outdoorsman Load successfully on a large Brown Bear while guiding fishermen in Alaska.

I’m betting Mackay’s 9mm Hard Cast Loading is at least equal to or better than the Buffalo Bore Ammo, which I’m betting is damn hard to find nowadays on the store shelves.

I load a 147 gr Hard Cast LBT flat point bullet to those velocity’s for my Glock 19. They work well on feral hogs here at the Ranch. The penetration is outstanding.

+1

No I do not cast my own.

To answer the second question, it would depend on the era of Colt 1911. Early 1911s were designed to run on military ball ammunition and in order for them to work with any other ammo such as semi wadcutters or various other profiles it required some work. Later Colt modified their feed ramps/barrels to accept different, more modern projectile profiles.

That said, this bullet/ammo was developed using various 1911s, as well as HK USP, S&W 3rd Gen guns, Glock .45s, etc. It feeds in various .45s quite nicely.

My Les Baer 1911 is built to tight tolerances and this ammo runs through it extremely well.

Hmm. Interesting. Watching this thread closely.

Always good to have options.