Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire Little Bighorn question

Some further perspective of the nation at that time and the reaction to LBH is the book "1876," written by Gore Vidal.

A most excellent book, great detail on the Stewart beat down (Stewart was over rated). That said and slightly off topic, but had Stewart gone through with his charge on the Union rear, he would have run into the massive reserves behind the Union lines and he probably would have been defeated. The loss at Gettysburg rests entirely on Lee's shoulders.

I assume you mean "Stuart"? As in James Ewell Brown Stuart?

I assume you mean "Stuart"? As in James Ewell Brown Stuart?[/quote]

OF course, yeah like JEB!...over rated...

Old state Deaf, Dumb, and Blind asylum on south side of 19th st. (Now MLK blvd) between west frontage road of IH-35 and Red River st. in Austin. Custer’s occupation HQ while in the city. His troops bivvied down along the banks of Shoal Creek at west 15th st. in a park area. Now Pease park



Building is still there on Univ. Of Texas property. Naturally the majority of folks around know nothing of this. As is true with most of the history around here.

You mean it didn't go like this?

OF course, yeah like JEB!...over rated...[/quote]
We'll just have to disagree on that overrated part

We'll just have to disagree on that overrated part[/quote]

He got his ASS kicked by Custer and with a vastly inferior force for starters...

He got his ASS kicked by Custer and with a vastly inferior force for starters...[/quote]

3,200 troopers vs. somewhere between 3,400-5,000 exhausted cavalrymen and their mounts who had just ridden nine days straight while raiding Maryland and Pennsylvania. Gregg's Cavalry was fresh and Custer was aggressive

Circumstances make history interesting. JEBS was a no show at Gettysburg and Lee had counted on him. Lee's decision to hold his Generals back from attacking, like Pickett when he entered and could've easily beat the Union forces was the first of a cascade of mistakes that cost him the battle. Had Lee listened to Longstreet he'd have avoided the catastrophe that ensued. Lee was an offensive tactician and Longstreet was a defensive tactician. In the fog of war little mistakes and circumstances that arise make a lot of difference.
Had Lee won Gettysburg the war would've likely been prolonged and inevitable defeat of the south cost much more in lives for both sides. The North did not play well nor did the South on occasion. It's just the cost of mayhem and individual opportunity for mayhem in war.
Custer suffered the same fate, I think. He was a controversial figure. I read that he and his brother were hated but his brother more than he for what he did to Indians. in my mind Little big Horn was sort of a glimpse of what it would have been like if Lee had won Gettysburg. It prolonged the inevitable.

3,200 troopers vs. somewhere between 3,400-5,000 exhausted cavalrymen and their mounts who had just ridden nine days straight while raiding Maryland and Pennsylvania. Gregg's Cavalry was fresh and Custer was aggressive[/quote]

Custer had less than 600 Wolverines at Gettysburg. But that was just a start. The end was Custer vs Stuart at Yellow Tavern…

What people don’t know about Custer, eclipses that which they think they know. Most people’s knowledge of Custer is the defeat at LBH.

They know nothing of:

Why he was there
What his orders were
How plains Indians were fought (this alone changes the perception of fighting Indians)
Why he attacked in the 25th instead of the 26th
Why Benteen was sent on an oblique
Why Reno was sent down Reno Creek
Why he went down the River to attack from the East
Why Sheridan put so much faith in Custer
What didn’t happen that contributed to his defeat

Outside the LBH, Custer’s accomplishments in the Civil War are largely unknown.

Everyone knows of Lee, Grant, Sherman, Longstreet, Forrest and so on, but few even know that at Appomattox, Custer captured some of Lee’s artillery and forced Lee to surrender to Grant. Phil Sheridan bought the table the treaty and gave it to Custer’s wife, Libby with this note:

“Permit me to say, Madam,” Sheridan wrote to Libbie, “that there is scarcely an individual in our service who has contributed more to bring about this desirable result than your gallant husband.”

After Libbie’s death in 1933, her will specified that the table be given to the Smithsonian Institution.

Like Custer or hate him, history hasn’t been kind to him and most people don’t know what they think they know as they criticize him…

Custer had less than 600 Wolverines at Gettysburg. But that was just a start. The end was Custer vs Stuart at Yellow Tavern…[/quote]
Custer had that. But Custer wasn't in charge. It was Gregg's Cavalry and they had 3,200 Troopers at East Cavalry field

"George Armstrong Custer. Custer was assigned to the division of Brig. Gen. Judson Kilpatrick but happened to be on loan to David Gregg and requested permission from Gregg to join his fight. Altogether, 3,250 Union troopers opposed Stuart."

All interesting.
Shrap… I thought about some of your ideas as I recently returned from the area. Contemplations come easier to me when I’m on site so to speak.
I hope you find the cache of evidence of which you search. When the bands broke camp they fragmented as they always did and after the elation of winning the battle wore off and reality of consequence set in it strikes me that getting rid of evidence would be easiest and fastest if the evidence were thrown in the water.
I would also be magnet searching hard in the Bighorn, Yellowstone, Tongue, and others for metal objects, rings, watches, guns, etc.
I know a rancher who found a row of singed military buttons on his place among other things. Could it be some of the clothing taken off bodies was later burned along with other flammables?
Lastly I know from a very good source of someone who was cleaning out a spring to get the flow back up who found two military rifles in the mud. Seems they would have been thrown in there when the pool was full back in the day?
Noting the examples above is what really brought home the “hide it underwater thought” quick and easy.

Just some thoughts.. again I’m hoping your search goes well because any new items or evidence found would be great for the cause of understanding.

Osky

I completely disagree that had Lee been victorious at Gettysburg the "defeat of the South" would have been inevitable.

Understood, and Custer was never alone in any battle, it was what he did with the cavalry that he had command of that was so decisive. He was not "wait and see," he was always on the attack and with what would be considered a small force against superior odds.

Perfect? no, but as good as Grant or any other general was a tactician, Custer was as good or better, leading men into battle and that is what wins wars.

Growing up in Montana, I was embarrassed to see we had a forest, a county, a town and other notable geographic locations named after a pompous killer that attacked a large gathering of noble Indians camping on the plains of Montana.

It wasn't until I started investigating the Custer Battlefield (that is what they named it and I will still refer to it as that) that I learned of his exploits during the Civil War and subsequent conflicts with Indians and his leading several expeditions on the frontier, that I came to know more of who Custer was and wasn't...

There is a common thought that Sitting Bull had warned the Indians to not take any material from the battlefield, that would get them in trouble should they be captured by whites with that contraband. I have no clue as to the truthfulness of that claim. I can tell you that a plains Indian would not leave 2 important items if they had a chance to get them, and that would be a horse or a gun. Nothing was more important to the survival of any person on the frontier, white or Indian, than a horse or gun.

Our investigation is for whatever they did leave that they couldn't take with them, which still could include a firearm or two, but it is doubtfull they left many guns.

You can be sure, no Indian left a rifle or threw it in a river...

I have collected some interesting artifacts over the years, just not the cache we hope to find someday...

I agree with the thought about what sitting bull said true or not. By this time buffalo were getting scarce in many area and a lot of Indians were on and off the reservations depending on time of year, food, etc.
How many involved in LBH were back on the reservations surrendering within a year?
I think they were savvy enough at this time not to show up among soldiers with gear/items taken from dead soldiers.
It was a different time for sure.
Do you know of anyone who has done extensive searches in the rivers and major creeks in that area? Many of the Indian crossing areas are still known of.

Osky