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A while back, we had a discussion of Civil War weapons, and I remember someone saying that the 10 Pound Parrot having a gain twist.
I’ve got a copy of Philip Cole’s book, titled
Civil War Artillery At Gettysburg
That I’m currently rereading.
The chapter on Artillery Projectiles gives some rather interesting nuts and bolts observations, which I thought I’d share.
The later model 10 Pound Parrot had a 3” bore size, compared to the original at 2.9 inches. They went with the 3” bore in order to hopefully make ammunition interchangeable with the 3”’Ordinance Rifle, also called the Rodman.
Despite the change, the guns still had difficulty with interchangeability due to different designs and different bore configuration.
The 3” Rifle had a 7 groove bore with a 1 turn in 11’ twist. The Parrot used a 3 grove bore with a 1 in 16’ twist.
Continues...
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🤔👍

My favorite was US M1841 12 pounder mountain howitzer!! Love that little gun.

I should mention that the cast iron shells used a sabot system to engage the rifling.
There are several different types of ammo for the 3” bore. The Parrot and some others used a lead band which the explosive force expanded into the rifling., either at the base or on bands around the shell itself. The bands often shed at the muzzle, posing a danger to friendlies in front of the gun.
The Shenkle Shell, OTOH, used a paper machete sabot around a shell tapered from the rear. The force expanded the paper around the center, causing it to fly much more accurately that the Parrot. The paper sabot was also safer to use for the guys posted coward of the battery.
The Union Army experimented with the Parrot. Some later guns did use a gain twist. (Rebel Parrots were 1 in 24’!) The shock of the gain twist also sometimes tore the lead sabot off the fired shell, which caused it to tumble. They even tried a left hand twist, according to Cole.
One other item I found very interesting was the very fast twist of the Witworth Rifle. The mechanical fit of the hexagon shell to the 2.76” bore allowed a very fast twist of 1 in 54”! My .50 Pennsylvania rifle uses a one in 55”!
Cole also says that the British actually experimented with a twist of 60,000 RPM!
Continues.. I forget what the muzzle velocity was for a 12 lb Witworth bolt. 12, maybe 1400 FPS?
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Was going to ask you about the Schenkel shell! Thanks. Had forgotten about their papier-mâché sabot!

Cool stuff! Thanks!

About the only drawback of the paper machete, was they’d swell if they got wet, which made it nearly impossible to load. But other than that, the guys with the 3” Rifle loved them.
The Parrot ammo however, usual shed the sabot in the bore of the 3” Rifle. The Army forbid using Parrot shells in the 3” gun!
As mentioned there’s quite a few different types of rifle ammunition for both the 3” bores. For simplicity’s sake, I’m not gonna get into that any further than I am. I have trouble keeping them straight!
Canister shot in rifles was not nearly as effective as in the Napoleon (12 lb bronze smoothbore). For one thing, the 3” bore was over an inch and a half smaller. Also canister usually dragged in the rifling, imparting a swirling pattern as opposed to the spreading cone of the 12 Pounder.
At any rate, this is a very informative book, if the big guns interest you. I also have George Newton’s “Silent Sentinels” which makes a helluva travel companion if your planning a visit to Gettysburg. It’s not as technical as Cole’s book, but it makes a nice tour guide to the actual guns on the field.
One parting observation. The Napoleon used a 2.5 pounds powder charge in a cloth bag, attached to a wooden sabot. A one shot deal for the loaders.
Both rifles used a 1 pound bag, loaded separately from the projectile itself.
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Remembering Kit Carson’s comments on the two mountain howitzers and their well trained crews at The first Adobe Walls. He stated not for them they would have never made it back! Fun times!

Hereya go, Kaywoodie!
I know this was posted here a while back, but since we’re on the subject!
Deer Hunting With aMountain Howitzer

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Excellent!!!!!!!!

Nice shootin’

I have a really good book on it. I believe the title is “Artillery and ammunition of the Civil War”. The evolution of cannons and ammunition in that short time period is amazing. Defensive construction and offensive weapons were continually evolving and did so very quickly. War tends to do that, eh?

Many of the cannons on the ironclads were smoothbore and when it became obvious that round shot weren’t penetrating the iron plates the gunners went to bolts. These were cylindrical, solid bolts, some with trocar like noses. With firing ranges that sometimes measured in just a few feet, it didn’t matter that the bolts weren’t spin stabilized.

There was also a somewhat primitive armor piercing, “shaped charge” shell. It was pretty much a heavy, iron “U” full of explosive with a rounded copper nose that closed of the open end of the “U”. There was no fuze and it was the friction generated during penetration that set off the bursting charge. Initially, the shells were detonating too early so they began encasing the bursting charge with burlap to insulate it and slightly delay the detonation.

As mentioned earlier in this thread, there were dozens of shell designs that attempted ensure they would engage the rifling of the different field rifles.

I’ve intentionally kept my studies to what was considered “Field Artillery”, because there were so many different types and calibers of “Siege Guns” and Naval Cannon.
The several different types of rifled ammunition are confusing enough, although the Yankees were supposed to have used a 30 Pounder Parrot at first Bull Run!
I’ve read some things that lead me to believe that the tube from this gun resides in the park in Belfonte PA!
But who the heck knows?
Being a “Gun Nut”, and a hand loader, the nuts and bolts things such as shell technology and twist rates of these muzzle loading black powder guns is interesting to me.
It very interesting considering the technology then, compared to what our sporting rifles use today. Both small arms and artillery have come an awful long way in 160 years.
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24# would shoot a ball through 24" of hard oak wood at 1000 yards!! That's some horsepower!

Had the oppertunity to watch three of these guns fired, blanks, at the Fairgrounds a number of years ago. The guns were positioned about 100 yrds from the grandstands. One of the re-enactor Artillery men said to cover ears, as it would be loud.
He was not kidding!

Do those books give any count of the unexploded munitions downrange (duds)? I know there were quite a few. I've read as high as 1 in 5. Do you know if they mixed the powder for the cannons on the spot or was it ready to use?

On armor piercing........
The tube on the Monitor had only been proofed to use 15 lb of powder.
Shells bounced off the Merrimack.....
It was later proofed for a 30 lb charge.
With that velocity it would have torn the Merrimack apart

Alway had a bit of morbid appreciation for the gun that blew up on the deck of that ship during a demonstration that took out the secretary of the Navy and several dignitaries from Washington DC.

What better way to deal with politicians

Jim, actually Cole says that the Federals used little to no solid shot at Gettysburg.
The fuses for the shell and shrapnel were so contemptible that they used them as shot!
I’ve also read somewhere, (I can’t recall for sure, possibly Battles & Leaders) that Union Guns were pulled from the line because they were outta ammo. After the battle was over, it was found that some batteries had actually discarded ammo!
The problem with the Rebel guns on July 3 was that their fuses were either cut long, or they weren’t working right.
Nearly all went off behind the Yankee line, if they went off at all.
IIRC, there had been a fire at one of their arsenals in the spring of 1863, so the fuses were working differently than they had before.
Hopefully someone else here can chime in on this. To be honest, I maybe read too much stuff, because when it comes to recalling where I came up with certain information, I’m sorta lost!
As I said, Coles “Field Artillery at Gettysburg” and Newton’s “Silent Sentinels” are among the best, but there are many others that cover the Artillery in the War Between The States.
I believe it’s called “Grape And Canister”. It’s a very good history of the Union Artillery throughout the war.
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I have read before somewhere, perhaps “The Last Full Measure” that confederate artillery was notorious for shooting high and most of their shells fell behind the lines at Gettysburg.

Silly war. Ha! Jackson and Grant in Mexico. Now that was artillery!!!!