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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 58,535 Likes: 6
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 58,535 Likes: 6 |
I've yet to suffer my first BC "failure"(in over a million tries),but I've sure as fhuqk had LOTS of scopes puke. Hint.
'Course,I actually shoot. Hint.
Fhuqking LAUGHING!.............
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
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Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 3,056
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 3,056 |
Is this a difficult question to answer?
What is the wind difference, of known BC, at 400 yds.?
Or drop, for that matter?
BC's only real value is Energy down range.
... and the .270 Win., even w/ flat based PSP bullets like the 150 gr. NP, has plenty for most game, even at 400 yards.
BC - is a placebo for marksmanship.
GR
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Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 3,786
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 3,786 |
Stick clearly answered your question using the 338-06 as a model a few posts ago
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Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 4,500
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 4,500 |
My thoughts are get what YOU want....these discussions go south pretty quick
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 11,528 Likes: 2
Campfire Outfitter
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OP
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 11,528 Likes: 2 |
My thoughts are get what YOU want....these discussions go south pretty quick LOL, Truth.
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Joined: Nov 2021
Posts: 582
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Nov 2021
Posts: 582 |
My thoughts are get what YOU want....these discussions go south pretty quick LOL, Truth. You asked for recommendations and got good answers, just don't expect everyone will agree with one another. As far as "going south", you already knew these type of questions lead to that.
Last edited by CopperSolid; 06/22/22.
Igitur quī dēsīderat pācem, præparet bellum
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Joined: Jan 2020
Posts: 5,172
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2020
Posts: 5,172 |
I still don't know what a 6.5 queermore can do that a 280ai can't, besides fit into a short action. What's the difference in wind drift between a bullet traveling 2700fps with a 600 bc compared to a bullet traveling 3000fps with a 500 bc at 400 and 500 yds? Stick to facts stick.
Life is good live it while you can.
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Joined: Jan 2020
Posts: 5,172
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2020
Posts: 5,172 |
Stick clearly answered your question using the 338-06 as a model a few posts ago We're talking 280ai not 338-06. Stick deflected like he always does when he doesn't like what the facts say.
Life is good live it while you can.
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,357
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,357 |
Kenneth, I built a 280AI a few years ago. Had an itch for a custom on M70 Classic Stainless. After shopping for a long time with no luck finding a short action, I settled for a long action and built the 280AI. It shoots great. 140 BT’s over RL22 & RL23 at 3200 fps, and 150 ELDX over RL26 at 3100 fps are exceptionally accurate in this rifle. Haven’t done much load development for 162’s but I’m sure it’ll stack them nicely……but that is kinda where the shine starts to get a little dull. Recoil of of a 162 at 2900ish is pretty stout. Also, the rifle is a bit heavy for my liking at just over 8.5 lbs scoped and empty. Those 140 & 150 loads work well, although not tried to run the ELDX into a shoulder at 100 yards from a 3100 fps start, but I can get equally good performance out to 500 yards with less powder, recoil and weight. That leaves the 162+ pills as the only options that seem to offer advantages to me.
All that said, if you need to scratch an itch, it’s a good killin cartridge, but personally, I wouldn’t do it again.
Don't speculate when you don't know, and don't second guess when you do.
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Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 15,304
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 15,304 |
Is this a difficult question to answer?
What is the wind difference, of known BC, at 400 yds.?
Or drop, for that matter?
BC's only real value is Energy down range.
... and the .270 Win., even w/ flat based PSP bullets like the 150 gr. NP, has plenty for most game, even at 400 yards.
BC - is a placebo for marksmanship.
GR His chart shows it pretty well 250’s started at the same speed. .247 BC drifts 31” and has 1050 FTLB at the 400 yard line. .648 BC drifts 9.7” and has over 2300 FTLBs at the 400 yard mark.
Semper Fi
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 11,528 Likes: 2
Campfire Outfitter
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OP
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 11,528 Likes: 2 |
Why did he use the G1 on one example and the G7 on another?
Serious question,
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Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 3,056
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 3,056 |
Is this a difficult question to answer?
What is the wind difference, of known BC, at 400 yds.?
Or drop, for that matter?
BC's only real value is Energy down range.
... and the .270 Win., even w/ flat based PSP bullets like the 150 gr. NP, has plenty for most game, even at 400 yards.
BC - is a placebo for marksmanship.
GR His chart shows it pretty well 250’s started at the same speed. .247 BC drifts 31” and has 1050 FTLB at the 400 yard line. .648 BC drifts 9.7” and has over 2300 FTLBs at the 400 yard mark. But that doesn't answer the question. Now, given, say, a flat-based .270 Win/150 gr. NP (BC= 0.465) at 2900 fps at the muzzle and a 200 yd. zero. At 400 yards, w/ a full deflection 10-knot wind, it's: - doin' 2150 fps. - carryin' 1540 ft-lbs. - droppin' 21 in. - blowin' 12 in. As both the velocity and energy are adequate for that bullet? ... I'm only correcting for the drop and wind. How does a little extra BC change that? Correcting less - doesn't replace correcting correctly. BC - is a placebo for marksmanship. GR
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Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 15,304
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 15,304 |
Why did he use the G1 on one example and the G7 on another?
Serious question, No clue, maybe that’s what he had loaded in the profile for his gun. Numbers remain the same though with either factor.
Semper Fi
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Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 15,304
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 15,304 |
Is this a difficult question to answer?
What is the wind difference, of known BC, at 400 yds.?
Or drop, for that matter?
BC's only real value is Energy down range.
... and the .270 Win., even w/ flat based PSP bullets like the 150 gr. NP, has plenty for most game, even at 400 yards.
BC - is a placebo for marksmanship.
GR His chart shows it pretty well 250’s started at the same speed. .247 BC drifts 31” and has 1050 FTLB at the 400 yard line. .648 BC drifts 9.7” and has over 2300 FTLBs at the 400 yard mark. But that doesn't answer the question. Now, given, say, a flat-based .270 Win/150 gr. NP (BC= 0.465) at 2900 fps at the muzzle and a 200 yd. zero. At 400 yards, w/ a full deflection 10-knot wind, it's: - doin' 2150 fps. - carryin' 1540 ft-lbs. - droppin' 21 in. - blowin' 12 in. As both the velocity and energy are adequate for that bullet? ... I'm only correcting for the drop and wind. How does a little extra BC change that? Correcting less - doesn't replace correcting correctly. BC - is a placebo for marksmanship. GR If you can judge a 7MPH wind or a 14MPH wind every time, right on the money, you’re right, adding BC makes no difference cause you’ve got it licked.
Semper Fi
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Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 3,056
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 3,056 |
Is this a difficult question to answer?
What is the wind difference, of known BC, at 400 yds.?
Or drop, for that matter?
BC's only real value is Energy down range.
... and the .270 Win., even w/ flat based PSP bullets like the 150 gr. NP, has plenty for most game, even at 400 yards.
BC - is a placebo for marksmanship.
GR His chart shows it pretty well 250’s started at the same speed. .247 BC drifts 31” and has 1050 FTLB at the 400 yard line. .648 BC drifts 9.7” and has over 2300 FTLBs at the 400 yard mark. But that doesn't answer the question. Now, given, say, a flat-based .270 Win/150 gr. NP (BC= 0.465) at 2900 fps at the muzzle and a 200 yd. zero. At 400 yards, w/ a full deflection 10-knot wind, it's: - doin' 2150 fps. - carryin' 1540 ft-lbs. - droppin' 21 in. - blowin' 12 in. As both the velocity and energy are adequate for that bullet? ... I'm only correcting for the drop and wind. How does a little extra BC change that? Correcting less - doesn't replace correcting correctly. BC - is a placebo for marksmanship. GR If you can judge a 7MPH wind or a 14MPH wind every time, right on the money, you’re right, adding BC makes no difference cause you’ve got it licked. At what range does the actual difference between the BC's matter, and at that point, how critical is the wind call for even the higher BC bullet? ... and is a prudent, ethical hunter shooting at that range? 400 is already way the hell out there. GR
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Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 17,898 Likes: 6
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 17,898 Likes: 6 |
BC - is a placebo for marksmanship. GR What precisely do you think the word “placebo” means?
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Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 15,304
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 15,304 |
I don’t get into what’s ethical for others with more gear. But the wind may be nil where your shooting from, but your bullet has to cross a several hundred foot deer canyon and connect with the buck or bull on the other side. Wind is stronger the higher above the ground you get, but might not be much from where you’re triggering the shot, so having some margin in being able to slip the wind isn’t a bad thing. The bullet has to travel over a few different wind streams to get to the far side. Having some forgiveness is helpful.
Semper Fi
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Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 17,898 Likes: 6
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 17,898 Likes: 6 |
Wind is stronger the higher above the ground you get, but might not be much from where you’re triggering the shot, so having some margin in being able to slip the wind isn’t a bad thing. Amen. I’ll take all the extra margin I can get. Enough other shít can go wrong that if I can decrease my wind deflection by 100% or more, I’ll greedily take such an easy reality.
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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I don’t get into what’s ethical for others with more gear. But the wind may be nil where your shooting from, but your bullet has to cross a several hundred foot deer canyon and connect with the buck or bull on the other side. Wind is stronger the higher above the ground you get, but might not be much from where you’re triggering the shot, so having some margin in being able to slip the wind isn’t a bad thing. The bullet has to travel over a few different wind streams to get to the far side. Having some forgiveness is helpful. This
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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I'll take any edge I can get, even on 350 to 400 yard shots. At those distances where I hunt the wind can be shifting dramatically between me and my target.
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