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we just didn't kill enough redskins

I don't think that's what most of us got out of this discussion. But okay.

Yes, Gene used to talk about this here. Said that he helped to find several of the locations for historical markers and such. His grandmother was Comanche

My book is "Comanches: The History of a People."

Is it as bad as "Comanches: The Destruction of a People."

My take on the Comanche kidnapping children and women is that it was their way of bringing in genic diversity to the tribe.

They had genetic diversity, probably more than any other tribe. If you were a 19 year old Spanish girl, captured by the Comanche, bad deal. You would be gang raped night after night, and back at the main camp the squaws might burn your nose off. Or cut off one of your ears. You had no rights.

But a captured 5 year old girl or boy was a different matter. Many times Comanche would adopt them into the tribe. The girl would be engaged to a warrior, the boy would become a warrior. These adopted captives had full rights as a Comanche citizen.

Over the centuries the Comanche adopted thousands of Apache, Spanish, and Anglo American children.
In many Indian tribes only native born Indians could be full fledged members of the tribe.

The Comanche had massive genetic diversity.

The mother of Chief Quanah Parker was a white girl.

Iiiiiinteresting!!

A Google on “Comanches Fehrenbach” gives

Comanches: The Destruction of a People published 1974

and

Comanches: The History of a People published 1975


My first guess is same book, different publishers

Not always blood and guts.

I’m trying to load an online copy of Josiah Gregg’s “Commerce of the Prairies”, an account of his travels along the Santa Fe Trail in the 1830’s.

One return trip his guide was a Comanche married into a New Mexico Mexican community. By the 1830’s it was estimated that one third of Comanches had a Spanish-speaking parent. Lots of child abductions to be sure, but not always.

Same time period, individual Comanches have interactions with individual Tejano San Antonio residents, no surprise as at any given time many Mexican ox-carts were crawling across the plains hauling freight.

It was actually Mexican cart men who rescued Oliver Loving of Goodnight/Loving fame when they found him west of the Pecos with that infected Comanche arrow wound.

In the same way Comanche were supposed to be ineffably hostile to Apaches, yet you have Comanches who can speak Apache, and Quanah Parker himself learns about peyote from camping around Mescalero Apaches.

As far as genetic diversity I believe the Southeastern Tribes were way up there too. Osceola himsel was reportedly part Indian, part Black and part White, not unusual in that part of the world.

When it comes to our Frontier history we tend to draw everything in absolutes, forgetting there were a whole bunch of individuals involved.

Yeah...us old folks remember the old folks back then. These injuns didn't bring turkeys and maidens to people for Thanksgiving. Savage apologists will always be around.

"When it comes to our Frontier history we tend to draw everything in absolutes, forgetting there were a whole bunch of individuals involved."

Melungeons! 😉

There was a show on the History channel about the Comanche. This was years ago when they actually did shows about history, rather than 4 straight hours in a pawn shop.

This was a 2 hour show and it featured Fehrenbach, had him on for 15 or 20 minutes, he was an interesting interview. I remember he talked about the "last stand" up in a canyon in N. Texas or maybe Colorado, in the 1870s, hundreds of Comanche were hiding in there, the Army came in there and annihilated hundreds of horses in the Comanche herd, they figured "No horse, no Comanche."

They were talking about Palo Duro Canyon, in the TX Panhandle Region. And Quanah Parker’s Band of Comanches. it’s just south of Amarillo.

The macKenzie raid.

Everything for them revolved around the horse, they would even eat them when they had to.

Ole Bad Hand, as the Comanches called him.

Didn’t he lose his mind and die desolate a just few years after that ?

Yes. He did loose his mind.

https://www.tshaonline.org/handbook/entries/palo-duro-canyon-battle-of


https://www.tshaonline.org/handbook/entries/mackenzie-ranald-slidell

Even? That's how "dogs" came to be. What other creature would follow another animal around for scraps, waiting to be eaton?

I remember reading something about a head injury he received from falling off a wagon caused it.

He was a tough SOB and a heck of a good Military Commander. Even though he was a Yankee. 😬

Birdy,

Here’s another book I highly recommend. As good as Gregg’s classic