Home Forums Hunting & Shooting BPCR Load data for a 45-120

I have a friend who wants to bring his Sharps replica out of the closet and shoot it again. He wants to use modern powder and 300 to 400 grain cast bullets. Depending on availability he might shoot some copper jacketed bullets.

I have been directed to Shooters Reference but I'm open to some suggestions using 4198 , 3031 and 4895. The owner of this rifle is a former guide in Montana in the early 1970's and then went to med school and was an emergency room doctor for year. He is now retired and thinks he wants to shoot Iowa deer with his Sharps.

kwg

In todays lawyers world it would be foolish giving smokeless load info for a .45-3-1/4" shell.
Too many things can happen with that long shell casing using smokeless powder in it.

What about using something like BH209 if he doesn’t wanna go full Blackpowder?

Would suggest he contact the manufacturer for advice on that.

Of course it's best to contact manufacturer.

My real beef suggesting that these single shots can't handle full power smokeless loads is ridiculous. Today an modern single shot reproduction like a falling block should be able to handle anything you put into it. It SHOULD be able to seeing that this stuff mostly starts around 3k and goes up from there.

Really any falling block made recently should be able to outperform any nitro double rifle like 450 nitro express or 470. The single shot is an strong mechanism and metallurgical materials have advanced considerably since 1900 or 1930 for that matter. Just saying a Ruger no1 or an modern Sharp's or HI Wall should be able to run anything.

A case full of Fg Goex in Norma 3.25" basic with cci-200 primers.hard card card ,compression,grease cookie another card wad. And 45 tgbs .442" ppb cast 1 in 20 at 566 grs. wrapped in 9 lb paper.. All the recoil you want then some. with accuracy. You don't buy big cases to load down with smokeless that's called pipe bombs. Buy a 45-70 if you wanna dick around with smokeless. Hey you asked..mb

Couple of things to cogitate on. The 45- 120 case is a half inch longer than the venerable 458 Lott cartridge, and....
There is some smokeless data available on line, and in the Lyman Reloading handbook.
Blackpowder or one of the semismokeless with fake smoke added so called substitute powders are the best route to take with that cartridge.

True the modern falling blocks are strong. It's not the action that is the problem, it's the barrel.
A Pedersoli 74 .45-70 had a problem at the Quigley shoot that had a load of 5744 that let loose and did bad damage to the shooters hand. I might have the photo's from that incident and one let loose down in AZ a friend send me those pictures.
When these rifles are loaded improperly they can detonate like a grenade.
One year I was shooting the match at the Quigley when a Ballard .40-65 blew just to the right of me about 20-30 feet that did bad damage to the person shooting it and parts were scattered around the firing line from that one.
Yes it was a weaker vintage rifle but if loaded wrong they will blow.

There’s others at Hodgdons also

Thanks for the information. I can't tell you who made his rifle as I have only seen it from a distance. My first thought was something that burns real slow. I see 4064 listed in the Hogden guide. That seems like a great place to start.

kwg

Why are there problems or issues with barrels? Is it inferior materials or metallurgy? Maybe it's the thread pitch and engagement to the receiver? It doesn't make sense to me because we're living an Era where materials and the strength of steels shouldn't be an concern.

My Ruger No1 is an cast receiver rifle as is the C. SHARPS 1875 I used to have. Both are cast by Ruger so whats the real difference? I'd like to know. Its not like I want to hot rodneverything or that it even needs to be ran at the ragged edge but being an falling block single you'd think it could digest anything with ease.

The rifles I seen except for the Ballard the receiver held with minimal damage but the barrels ruptured.
One 74 Shiloh was loaded with a full load of Bullseye because it was black in color and the guy thought it was black powder. The action held but the barrel split wide open.
All the rifles I seen were loaded with 5744.

A lot of the issues start with a "Magnum" mentality. There are people out there that think a .45-70 or other black powder cartridges can be pushed to the magnum velocity's of the HP rifles.
I see posts that make me shake my head with what they are telling some shooter just starting with these rifles looking for starting loads.

kwg,
Most of these guys have never shot the 45/120 3-1/4".
All you will ever need to know about the cartridge is in these two booklets. Volume I is 106 pages and Volume II is 71 pages.
Send me $45.00 (what I paid for them on 11/19/2009, I will include the receipt) and they are yours.
Chris
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Hello Sharps
I am heading out of town tomorrow at 12 noon or close to that and will be back on Tuesday. I'll get back to you when I get back home. The guy that needs the loading information is a former guide in Montana in his youth. He later went to med school and was an emergency room doctor for years. He now has some farm ground just up the road from our little place and he wants to shoot deer with his rifle.

kwg

Straight case in the "Shotgun Season" I assume?

My son is on an acreage between Adel and Earlham, IA. He is using a 375 Winchester and a 444 Marlin for Deer these days, both in Marlin lever guns.
I keep after him about taking one of my Shiloh Sharps (a real rifle) home with him to use........maybe one day.......

The 120 should do the job with horsepower to spare. Maybe your friend can come up with a lighter bullet "Express Load" for his rifle, depending on the twist rate in his Sharps.
I had a Farmingdale made Shiloh with a 1:20 twist that shot a 350.00 grain bullet well.

Received and returned your PM.
Thanks,
Chris

Well I been with a .45-3-1/4 since Cabela first stocked the Quigley rifle it's no stranger with me.
I still have the rifle but it now has a .45-2.4 barrel on it

Killed an antelope with a C Sharps Rocky Mountain Rifle in 45 3 1/4 shooting a 550 gr patched bullet in 1978...

That 550 grain bullet should of put it right down. The guy who is bringing his back out wants to shoot Iowa deer with it. He wants a 300 to 400 grain bullet.

kwg

I think Iowa just changed the law to allow .357 bottle neck rifle cases and above. I'm old fashioned and shoot 12 ga. slugs,

I just loaded some 200 and 225 grain bullets in a 35 Whelen for the guy who leases the ground of the guy who wants to bring his Sharps back out. We are about 5 miles east of Winterset. Earlham is in northwest Madison county and Winterset is in the dead center of the county.

The guy who owns the land; we call him Doc since he was an ER doctor for years, got the urge to bring the Sharps back out after his lessee started shooting the 35 Whelen. Actually, I don't see a thing wrong with the .375 or the .444 for Iowa deer. Most shots are under 75 yards. Although, Doc has a pretty big valley on his place that is several hundred yards wide. I don't know that Doc has the eyesight to make a 300 yard shot anymore.

He does have some stories of guiding in Montana as a young man and using a converted Eddystone in 35 Whelen to finish off wounded grislys for clients. He claims he lived with the Crow or the Cree indians (I don't recall which) and since he was white he would guide the white clients. This would of been in the late 1960's. I did see the Eddystones. One he had in 35 Whelen and one he said was a 35 Whelen Ackley improved. I don't really know how you can improve a 35 Whelen.

The guy is a character and lives somewhat like a mountain man when he is in Iowa. He does all of his cooking on a wood stove. His wife makes him go to Florida for the winter so he either shoots the first season or he needs to get a land lord/tenant license.

I'll have to get a better look at his Sharps to see just what it is. I doubt he knows what the twist is. He wants the 300 to 400 grain bullets so I assume he has shot them before and was happy with the results.

kwg

keg,

From the sound of the guy I don't think that he would have a problem shooting the 120 with a full load of black.
I used around 115 grains of 1F with I think was a 550 gr GG or a 400 gr flat nose and they played down Michigan UP bucks in fine shape. Recoil is stiff but manageable shooting game off hand and with the right bullet shape he will shoot several follow up shots with out fouling control.
Heck I'm 82 and still shoot my Shiloh .50-2.5 with a 700 gr bullet or the .44-90 bn with a full load of black.

Load was 120 grains of Goex 1f, antelope was about 100 yards out, hit square in the shoulder it just sorta picked him up and dumped him about 10 ft down a dry wash he was standing beside. Same bullet in a 45 2.4 loaded with 85 grs put a bull elk down at 204 so hard he almost beat his shadow to the ground.
Even with the 3-400 grain bullets a ribcage on smaller stuff like deer and antelope hit will blow thru without a lot of fanfare, good but short blood trail, but hit the shoulder and it gets sorta spectacular.
Keep in mind the 45-70 throwing a 405 gr bullet around 1300 fps is what made that cartridge so long lived.
Hope you're shooter friend has good cases, as new ones are all but impossible to find.

I don't think Doc has any black powder left. It sounds like the gun has been in the closet for a number of years. He does have some 4064. He also has a 50-90 as I recall but he never mentioned bringing it out.

kwg

My concern about brass is, Doc has some but it's been in a box for God only knows how many years and it's all corroded away. I'm sure it's a bear to find some of that stuff right now on the market. It seems from what I'm reading, that the 45-70 is more than enough to take Iowa deer with. Why he wants to dig out the 120 I don't know. Maybe he is going through his 2nd childhood. But, he lets us hunt his property so we keep him happy and he is a great guy and good neighbor. If things go to hell he has beef and deer on his place. We won't starve. Our only concern is keeping the illegals and the city folk off the property.

kwg

Ild run those cases thru the cleaner and see how they clean up. But I'ld be pretty leary about shooting them with either black or smokeless if they're ate up at all.
Best bet might be to get ahold of Rocky Mountain Cartridge and get 10 or 20 cases for his hunt.

5744 works well in my 45-90. Never shot a 45-120

Foolish endeavor, but a man's man if he can tolerate the recoil.

I believe he is going through his second childhood. Of course, he has to spend some time with his wife in Florida. If everything works out I might have some pictures after September. I want to see this thing fire as well.

kwg

Loaded quite a few of these huge BP cartridges with smokeless. Found that an over powder card wad followed dacron filler to keep everything locked down promotes good ignition and accuracy.

Today I use the Alliant BP substitute in everything as it shoots clean and works just like real BP.

140 hrs. KIK 2F with 800 gr. Money Bullet!

Unfortunately, after asking me to load up some 45-120's for him, Doc left Iowa to go to Florida to spend the winter with his wife. He has not returned. I don't expect to see him until May or June. She must really rule the roost and has taken his credit card away so he can't get a plane ticket back.

kwg

That's bs sharpie about 116 grs of Fg and a 550 gr ppb anything longer than that you will play hell with it staying stabilized at extended range. Mb

To put it lightly...you don't know what you're talking about!

1000 yards 50/90 PP by .com/photos/61286670N08/]Sharps Man, on [bleep]

A 98 from 1000 yards using the 800 gr. Money bullet! I was testing to see the elevation deviation and if I had taken a MOA left they'd all been inside the 20" inner plate which is ten ring size!

Hey Sharps Feller, glad you're still looking down at the green grass and not up at the roots.

I remember you shooting that .50 and I thought at the time when you sold that shooter, WHY!!

But I think this at 1K was better

Kurt

Kurt

Was 83 yesterday and feel good....eyes still good so I see the barrel sights on my Hawken just fine! Hope you're doing well! Talked with Bills wife Sidri couple days back and she's doing well! Good to hear from you! Still shoveling snow I bet!!

Untitled by Sharps Man, on [bleep]

All is well here Rick. Just the old age pains with the broken foot and fractured back that just don't seem to want to heal. But I put up with it, just grumble now and then.

Sure miss your posts.

That looks like a fine corn fed feller you're holding that looks like he out smarted the hunters for a few years.

Good work.

Kurt

Here's another! Hunted this one six days......before daylight until dark thirty! Kansas grows some big bucks! All fair chase no game farm. Property my son owns.

Kansas whitetail 2014 by .com/photos/61286670N08/]Sharps Man, on [bleep]

Hello all
He's back. Doc is back from Florida. I bought a couple of books from Sharps1874 about loading the 45-120 and wouldn't you know it, he left them in Florida. He must of wanted out of there pretty bad.

Swifty left me with some loads from Hodgden. I'll be looking them over.

Thanks for the help on this thread.

kwg