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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2004
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As a resident of a rural county, in a state, that has legalized growing...without any polling whatsoever...I can personally testify to the train wreck it has caused here. The human trash that grows for Asian cartels are the worst thing that has ever happened to us. Every crime under the sun seems to be part of the Cambodian/Hmong culture. It has bankrupted the local law enforcement budget, public healthcare budget, toxic waste cleanup, on and on. From murder, to selling puberty age brides, game poaching, theft, arson....We were a lot better off here when the local hippies were growing the dope, small scale black market. The big impact we are seeing is the illegal use of water, essentially drying up a number of streams. That, and the the theft of generators and water pumps.
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Joined: Dec 2007
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2007
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Funny how so many people who talk about their freedom and rights being taken away are often the first to tell others why some drugs should be banned. LOL, so you think people have a Constitutional Right to take drugs, sell drugs even to children, grow and manufacture drugs, operate a motor vehicle while under the influence of drugs etc. and this RIGHT shall not be Infringed. Is this sarcasm? Unfortunately, no. He is serious.
“Life is life and fun is fun, but it's all so quiet when the goldfish die.”
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Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 9,470
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 9,470 |
As a resident of a rural county, in a state, that has legalized growing...without any polling whatsoever...I can personally testify to the train wreck it has caused here. The human trash that grows for Asian cartels are the worst thing that has ever happened to us. Every crime under the sun seems to be part of the Cambodian/Hmong culture. It has bankrupted the local law enforcement budget, public healthcare budget, toxic waste cleanup, on and on. From murder, to selling puberty age brides, game poaching, theft, arson....We were a lot better off here when the local hippies were growing the dope, small scale black market. The big impact we are seeing is the illegal use of water, essentially drying up a number of streams. That, and the the theft of generators and water pumps. That's not "legalized" growing. Crime is still crime.
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Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 14,729 Likes: 2
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jul 2015
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Freakenomics has a chapter on the idea.
Basically - you can't kill a market by going after supply. You have to kill the demand. Always less suppliers than users in the drug trade. Taking out a supplier means there's less, cost goes up enticing someone else to become a supplier because now the money outweighs the risk. Their contention, based solely on economic theory - not an actual ask or solution would be to incarcerate or execute those that use it to the point where no one wants to use it. More supply than demand, price drops and its no longer enticing to the suppliers (cartels) to do so and they exit.
Saw it with booze. Going after the makers (Org crime) didn't work because so long as there's demand - someone will attempt to fill that vacuum. Get rid of the demand - you end the market. Basic economics says that when price of a product goes up, demand goes down. Drugs are not immune to this effect, especially over the long term. In one 12 month period, the US had over 100,000 opioid deaths. Of course there were a lot of prescription deaths. Policy will have to be changed to deal with that. But for all the other deaths, justice alone dictates that the dealers be sentenced to death. I'd add the misery caused by pot use in that too and execute major pot dealers.
Politics is War by Other Means
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Joined: Jun 2010
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jun 2010
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Funny how so many people who talk about their freedom and rights being taken away are often the first to tell others why some drugs should be banned. LOL, so you think people have a Constitutional Right to take drugs, sell drugs even to children, grow and manufacture drugs, operate a motor vehicle while under the influence of drugs etc. and this RIGHT shall not be Infringed. Is this sarcasm? Unfortunately, no. He is serious. Jefferson and a lot of others smoked mj. Ymmv re history
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Joined: Sep 2021
Posts: 4,045 Likes: 2
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Sep 2021
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Since 1971 we've spent over a trillion dollars on the war of drugs. Lost hundreds of law enforcement officers on the war on drugs. Incarcerated more than 200,000 Americans - many for minor drug offences. And we still have a massive drug problem and the cartels are still making billions each year.
It has been estimated that legalizing pot will save/generate more than $13 billion annually and will help to focus law enforcement efforts towards deadly drugs and those who peddle them. So legalize it, tax the hell out of it, and enforce impaired driving laws to protect the community. What is the legal limit of THC in the system that determines “ impaired “? With alcohol we have .08 and can be tested on the side of the road with a breathalyzer. What device is available to LE to test for THC that will determine “impaired” and does this roadside device stand up in court? Each State must decide how they intend on making that determination. Personally I am more concerned about the 16 States that allow illegal immigrants drivers licenses than some stoner driving 30 in a 70 zone.
Si Vis Pacem, Para Bellum
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 34,301 Likes: 8
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 34,301 Likes: 8 |
Funny how so many people who talk about their freedom and rights being taken away are often the first to tell others why some drugs should be banned. LOL, so you think people have a Constitutional Right to take drugs, sell drugs even to children, grow and manufacture drugs, operate a motor vehicle while under the influence of drugs etc. and this RIGHT shall not be Infringed. Is this sarcasm? No, I’m asking snowflake if he actually believes using drugs is a Constitutional Right that should not be infringed on. I put his comment on par with the left saying killing babies is also a constitutional right.
Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Give a man a welfare check, a forty ounce malt liquor, a crack pipe, an Obama phone, free health insurance. and some Air Jordan's and he votes Democrat for a lifetime.
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Joined: Feb 2003
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,393 Likes: 4 |
Funny how so many people who talk about their freedom and rights being taken away are often the first to tell others why some drugs should be banned. Most gun sites have moderators from hell. We have not progressed much in 300 years since mass witchcraft executions.
There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. -Ernest Hemingway
The man who makes no mistakes does not usually make anything.-- Edward John Phelps
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 34,301 Likes: 8
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 34,301 Likes: 8 |
Since 1971 we've spent over a trillion dollars on the war of drugs. Lost hundreds of law enforcement officers on the war on drugs. Incarcerated more than 200,000 Americans - many for minor drug offences. And we still have a massive drug problem and the cartels are still making billions each year.
It has been estimated that legalizing pot will save/generate more than $13 billion annually and will help to focus law enforcement efforts towards deadly drugs and those who peddle them. So legalize it, tax the hell out of it, and enforce impaired driving laws to protect the community. What is the legal limit of THC in the system that determines “ impaired “? With alcohol we have .08 and can be tested on the side of the road with a breathalyzer. What device is available to LE to test for THC that will determine “impaired” and does this roadside device stand up in court? Each State must decide how they intend on making that determination. Personally I am more concerned about the 16 States that allow illegal immigrants drivers licenses than some stoner driving 30 in a 70 zone. How do states make this determination? What standards and testing devices are available to determine “impaired “? You are the one that brought up Enforcing “Impaired “ laws, let’s have the data, devices and legal statutes that will allow them to do this. Other than Orange fingers and an empty bag of Cheetos on the floor.
Last edited by steve4102; 07/19/22.
Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Give a man a welfare check, a forty ounce malt liquor, a crack pipe, an Obama phone, free health insurance. and some Air Jordan's and he votes Democrat for a lifetime.
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 56,326 Likes: 9
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 56,326 Likes: 9 |
As was already mentioned, the pot trade is a mess. Crime of all types follows it, and the cartels here were the Mexicans.
One illegal grow site I know of got caught and bulldozed three different times only to be rebuilt. We're talking a hundred or more big greenhouses, all the irrigation and fertilizer injection systems, tens of thousands of plants, etc. completely bulldozed into piles. I heard through a contractor that was working for them that the on site manager said they could afford to do it three times, then they'd move on to another site, hoping the odds were in their favor and one or two crops would get through w/o being caught. Can you imagine spending many hundreds of thousands of dollars, even into the millions, building sites and losing them, time after time, and STILL there was enough profit to absorb those losses?
It's crazy to think of that being a sound business plan but I guess when there's that much profit it pencils out.
Fast forward, now the market has dropped out of pot here and greenhouses and all the associated supplies have been abandoned and left behind. Property owners that were leasing land to illegal growers are left with HUGE messes and no way to clean them up. The scale of the mess left behind is hard to fathom. Craigslist is littered with greenhouses, pipe, and misc supplies that were left behind. Some farms that used to grow hay or cattle now look like landfills.
Legalized pot creates a revenue stream for the state, which now needs a governance plan and enforcement division, so govt gets to do what it loves, which is grow and govern.
For those not familiar it may be hard to imagine how an illegal grow site can remain active with hundreds of giant greenhouses, hundreds of foreign workers living in shipping containers, etc, etc. They were in plain site, at least from the air, but there's that period of time in the early stages of legalization that the govt doesn't have enough enforcement to keep up with the number of sites so the cartels play the odds and roll the dice.
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An 8 dollar driveway boy living in a T-111 shack
LOL
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Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 9,470
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 9,470 |
How did the prohibition work out?
Ask yourself that question.
Kennedy dynasty, NY mobs, capone, etc...
No bias, just think.
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Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 9,470
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 9,470 |
As was already mentioned, the pot trade is a mess. Crime of all types follows it, and the cartels here were the Mexicans.
One illegal grow site I know of got caught and bulldozed three different times only to be rebuilt. We're talking a hundred or more big greenhouses, all the irrigation and fertilizer injection systems, tens of thousands of plants, etc. completely bulldozed into piles. I heard through a contractor that was working for them that the on site manager said they could afford to do it three times, then they'd move on to another site, hoping the odds were in their favor and one or two crops would get through w/o being caught. Can you imagine spending many hundreds of thousands of dollars, even into the millions, building sites and losing them, time after time, and STILL there was enough profit to absorb those losses?
It's crazy to think of that being a sound business plan but I guess when there's that much profit it pencils out.
Fast forward, now the market has dropped out of pot here and greenhouses and all the associated supplies have been abandoned and left behind. Property owners that were leasing land to illegal growers are left with HUGE messes and no way to clean them up. The scale of the mess left behind is hard to fathom. Craigslist is littered with greenhouses, pipe, and misc supplies that were left behind. Some farms that used to grow hay or cattle now look like landfills.
Legalized pot creates a revenue stream for the state, which now needs a governance plan and enforcement division, so govt gets to do what it loves, which is grow and govern.
For those not familiar it may be hard to imagine how an illegal grow site can remain active with hundreds of giant greenhouses, hundreds of foreign workers living in shipping containers, etc, etc. They were in plain site, at least from the air, but there's that period of time in the early stages of legalization that the govt doesn't have enough enforcement to keep up with the number of sites so the cartels play the odds and roll the dice. Illegal. Don't understand the meaning?
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Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 1,951
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 1,951 |
When they're stoned they have no business behind the wheel. Yet when stopped by law enforcement with personal consumption amount of weed most times they don't even receive a summons. So the rest of us are stuck with the possible damage they may do. This is no different than alcohol. Responsible use is the issue. Some people will not act responsibly regardless of the the substance.
Deadlines and commitments, what to leave in, what to leave out...
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424 Likes: 13
Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424 Likes: 13 |
If an increase in personal freedoms causes some safety concerns I really don’t give a fugk.
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual. Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit. My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 34,301 Likes: 8
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 34,301 Likes: 8 |
When they're stoned they have no business behind the wheel. Yet when stopped by law enforcement with personal consumption amount of weed most times they don't even receive a summons. So the rest of us are stuck with the possible damage they may do. This is no different than alcohol. Responsible use is the issue. Some people will not act responsibly regardless of the the substance. Not really. Open bottle is a crime, open container of pot is not. Driving under the influence of alcohol can be determined with a breathalyzer right on the side of the road, under the influence of THC cannot.
Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Give a man a welfare check, a forty ounce malt liquor, a crack pipe, an Obama phone, free health insurance. and some Air Jordan's and he votes Democrat for a lifetime.
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Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 9,470
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 9,470 |
When they're stoned they have no business behind the wheel. Yet when stopped by law enforcement with personal consumption amount of weed most times they don't even receive a summons. So the rest of us are stuck with the possible damage they may do. This is no different than alcohol. Responsible use is the issue. Some people will not act responsibly regardless of the the substance. Not really. Open bottle is a crime, open container of pot is not. Driving under the influence of alcohol can be determined with a breathalyzer right on the side of the road, under the influence of THC cannot. You dont get this, do you?
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 12,635 Likes: 2
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 12,635 Likes: 2 |
I put his comment on par with the left saying killing babies is also a constitutional right. You just equilibrated smoking marijuana with killing babies.
“When Tyranny becomes Law, Rebellion becomes Duty”
Colossians 3:17 (New King James Version)
"And whatever you do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through Him."
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 12,635 Likes: 2
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 12,635 Likes: 2 |
Make cannabis a legal garden crop. Then attack Valium and opioid use by politicians that make laws based on making $$$ for themselves.
“When Tyranny becomes Law, Rebellion becomes Duty”
Colossians 3:17 (New King James Version)
"And whatever you do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through Him."
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Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 9,470
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 9,470 |
If an increase in personal freedoms causes some safety concerns I really don’t give a fugk.
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