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Anyone thoughts on Papal visit and apology?
He seemend genuine in his apology. I didn’t expect him to mention the Doctrine of Discovery—perhaps beyond his sphere of influence but he could have at least denounced the Papal Bulls of fellow Spaniard Rodrigo Borgia-(Alexander VI).
Iam pi$$ed about my tax dollars being spent on this visit.
A great many of my local indigenous friends are really PO’ed about that headdress.
I have some experience with a family being torn apart by the authorities—my heart goes out to the survivors of residential schools.
People have asked me about my religious upbringing—I tell them the truth—I was raised in a cult—12 years of Catholic education.

Karl, you make me think of the Chieftan Columbus, and fellow Spaniards had tied to a stake, and "gave," one last chance to convert.

He said, If Heaven is full of people like you, I'd rather not go there."

Don't get me wrong, everyone here knows what I think.

What's the point beyond virtue signaling?
"Dear First Peoples:

Sorry we screwed you out of land, culture, and heritage. BTW, White people are not going back to Europe and you really can't return to your Stone Age culture in the 21st Century. In nomine patris et fili et spiritus sancti, amen."

As far as our tax money being spent is concerned, that is Trudeau's reason for living; to spend our money. As for the rest of it, I don't care. It's all just playacting on the world stage. GD

Karl;
Top of the morning to you sir, I trust the day's behaving decently for you out east and all who matter to you are healthy.

With the understanding that I'm not FN or Catholic and have never been associated with a church which was ever involved with residential schools, my view can only be that of an outsider at best.

There are members of my family who lived in various FN communities - teacher and RN - so Dene, Woods Cree and Tahltan FN communities and both in visiting them and FN folks there and through them I have some exposure to FN issues in the '70's and '80's.

It would seem to me that if there are FN folks who were truly helped by the visit and apology, then its surely not the stupidest use of our tax dollars.

As far as the details of what's gone on, we've been on the road and out of the news loop intentionally for the past couple of weeks. It's sort of amazing how much better I feel not watching any news for even that length of time....

Makes you wonder doesn't it?

The FN issue in Canada isn't simple and there's instances out here in BC where frankly I don't see it working out well for any of the parties involved. I can't say often enough that I hope and pray I'm wrong about that because we're banking our children's future - FN and non FN children's future - on some of these issues/problems.

We'll see I suppose Karl, but as a semi-old guy it's been my experience that virtue signaling and pretty sounding words don't make for any lasting change.

All the best to you all.

Dwayne

Will all the apologies and monitory compensations, there can never be any true reconciliation here without forgiveness FROM the FN peoples.

Without this forgiveness, they will forever be victims.

Humans love to blame and project guilt. As a result, the world expects apologies...constantly.

It's not my fault. You owe me. I've been wronged. I want stuff. You don't understand me. You are a bad person. I am special. etc. We see this every day. Not only with indigenous people, but with the young, immigrants, religious groups, ethnic groups, different parts of the country, etc.

My family is tired of the constant whining. Half of us are FN. We recognize it, but have never used it to elicit money, apologies or special treatment. It is inconceivable to keep bringing it up over and over. We were raised Catholic. And there are abuses in our family history. You recognize it and move on.

How often do people need to apologize? How often do German Christians/agnostics need to apologize for the Nazis? Or Americans for dropping nukes on Japan? Or Europeans for bringing smallpox to North America? Or Muslims putting blacks and whites into slavery along the Barbary Coast and Europe? Or Asians who invaded parts of Europe?

I sincerely doubt that there is a single group of people on earth whose ancestors haven't killed, put into slavery, overrun, abused or invaded another group in the past.

My statement was not about more apologies or financial compensation. It was about the FN peoples accepting those apologies and forgiving those who offended them. This is the only way they will be free from their past and move on. If they don't do that, they will always remain to be victims.

Forgiveness sets free from bitterness the offended more than the offender.

I know. But they, like others, are caught in this loop of apologies, whining, apologies. I was supporting your contention that they need to recognize it and move on.

The frustration that a lot of CDNs feel about this is that it will never end no matter what is done.

Certainly, the CBC will no let it end as well.

Well said - sums up my feelings in a nutshell.

There have been very few cultures since recorded history that have not been discriminated against, but not all of them have so embraced victimhood and therefore have ended up stronger as a result.

We do the indigenous no favors by constantly emphasizing their status as victims and in ever constant need of compensation. Nothing positive can come of this.

So can we finally move on?

Surely, you jest. There is still much white regret to milk.

Nick

Phil Sheridan was right about those people. Oops,you didn't have Phil on your side of the Medicine Line. I wish U.S. Grant would have listened to him on this side.

Historically speaking apologies should be offered by the actual perpetrators and acceptance and forgiveness given by those injured by the actions of the perpetrators. These “empty” apologies for things that may or may not have happened several generations ago to people no longer with us by people no longer with us is a hollow act and a self-defeating product of “white guilt”. Anyone that thinks they possess the ability, through their apology, to assuage the “pain” of entire groups of people that are “victims”, simply by association, has an inflated sense of their own self-importance and a childlike grasp of history because their “victims” are themselves beneficiaries through birthright.

As I’ve pointed out here before, a lot of the things reported regarding these “residential schools” have been proven to be 100% bullshit. The “bodies” buried in “mass graves” never materialized and the entire narrative was found to be a lie.

When worlds collide suffering is inevitable, when civilizations are in conflict the strong prevail. I won’t apologize for that which I’ve never done and I won’t seek forgiveness from those I’ve never hurt. Maybe once the natives start begging one another for forgiveness I’ll reevaluate my thoughts.

When 2 sides are at war with one another eventually 1 side will be victorious. That’s the nature of war and the losing side is NEVER happy to lose but tough sh.it, that’s war. I won’t apologize for winning and I won’t ask forgiveness for surviving. I also don’t allow another to apologize on my behalf…..if I’m sorry for my actions I’ll apologize face to face for my mistake, if not then I ain’t sorry. 😉

I don’t know what is more pathetic…..white-guilt ridden idiots apologizing for something they had no control or responsibility over….or white-guilt ridden idiots apologizing for a fictitious event?

If rehashing the injustices of history was an effective tactic, one that changed the past and informed the future, then I would be more willing to beat that dead horse. Nobody can put that genie back into the bottle. The Sioux can’t change their historic treatment of the Crow and the Europeans can’t change their historic treatment of the Indian. We can only move forward…..

That is what I told both of my sons, exactly.
What kind of Dad would I be to hand over perpetual anguish to build their lives around, and their childrens lives.
Unless I wanted money, then I would whine.

What I see is Native governance that simply herded its own People to a place where they have no idea what is happening, therefore, no say. Hard to believe the Native community could/did move in lockstep with all of the mandates, meanwhile, a modern day injustice is happening right in front of them today with Tamara Lich sitting in the joint for a minor infraction without bail, I don't see any Native governance coming to her defense, hypocrites.

The relationship between Canada's Native People and the Government is destroying the Native People. For a people who were some of the most ingenious on the Planet have become some of the most useless in such a short time, money won't fix that.

Independence = freedom.

We are cursed. History is full of men who claimed to be acting with the best intentions.
- Stephen Redgwell

Aboriginals are being played and used as pawns by their own upper hierarchy, leaders, band councils to extort taxpayer money from apologetic politically correct and corrupt gov'ts who bend to this modern manufactured 'plight'. Ordinary aboriginals will get no benefit from the millions and billions of dollars sent their way as those dollars are intercepted by chiefs and their understudies, lawyers, bureaucrats and their bureaucracies who gobble up the vast majority of these funds given them by wide eyed guilt complexed appearing role playing politicians. This whole thing is just another ploy by the Aboriginal Affairs industrial complex to launder more tax monies to the friends of this complex. It has nothing to do with the wrongs of the past by Church or state. It is all to do with pulling the heart and purse strings of dumb guilt ridden people who succumb to this egregious deception. Most ordinary hard working natives I know are angry and insulted by the outright deceptive patronism and the hollow lip service they are receiving from this papal event. Nothing will change except a lot of money changing hands and lining the pockets of the orchestrators of this farce.

So a guy who didn't do it apologizes to another guy who likely wasn't
an injured party, about something that happened before I was born.


This crap is hilarious.
There are blacks who think I owe them for slavery.
My family had nothing to do with it.

German, English, Swede, Swiss, Irish, on my patriarchal side or mom's patriarchal side. Only the good Lord knows what else

So, my Swede part apologizes to the English side for Viking Raids.
The English part tried to apologize to the Irish, they are still fighting about it.

The Swiss are trying to negotiate a piece. (Of cheese? Or tail)

The German side thinks my whole American Ass owes it something for
all the influences that made this country successful. It also gigs
at the English for "Their" royalty. Which is actually quite German.

This pisses off the English, they are still carrying a grudge over a couple
big wars.

No wonder I get indigestion,


All of that,
Is about as ridiculous as the pope wasting air on this.


"It is unfortunate this happened, and it shouldn't have."
Full stop.


Thought.
I have yet to hear one of these aggrieved parties apologizing to
those that THEIR ancestors mistreated.

Steve: Good post, well thought out.