Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Express Rifles and Big Bores Only The great 458 Winchester. Everyone should own one at least once

Sir TNly Joe,

What is the pronunciation of "TNly" that you prefer ?
Like "Tennesseely Joe" or
or like "Tee In Lee Joe"
or just leave it unspeakable as symbolic of "The Artist Formerly Known as rodeojoe" ?

I think the PC paint acts as a sort of gas check on the bottom of a plain-base bullet.
And the PC paint also reduces leading whether plain base or gas check.
I have several plain base that I use with PC paint and no grease lube.
No leading problems at under 2000 fps with those,
and I suspect BHN 18 would do OK for that too, though mine are harder.
2200 fps with gas check, PC paint, and BHN 25 works nicely.
I need to see if 2500 fps with my 400-ish-grainer hardcast/GC/PC-painted bullets work well too.
Still have not done that.
So many possibilities.

A .459" cast bullet might shoot OK at less than 1400 fps in a .458 WM.
For top performance at +1400 fps in .458 WM with groove diameter of .458" to .459"
you must use bullet diameter of at least .460" to .461" it is true.

Have not bought any cast bullets for rifle except some Berry's .45-70 bullets that were .459" greasers, about 405-gr FN hardcast, about BHN 18-19.
The SAAMI minimum groove for .45-70 is 0.456", and many .45-70 rifles are .457", or .458"-grooved.
The Berry's bullet works best in my .457"-grooved .45-70 rifles at 1400 to 1800 fps.

Thank you again Sir Ron. I have been using PC bullets for a number of years now in my revolvers, no gas check there, but at these higher velocities, it seemed that a belt and suspenders approach is what I saw most often in this thread. I would like to get higher velocities to match my hunting loads, so will see if I can source some GC, PC bullets at harder than 18. If not, then it sounds like 2000fps is what I need to shoot for.

Sir Ron, you have to look at it like a vanity car plate.

Sirtnly Joe,__ Sir tn ly Joe,__ Certainly Joe?

Certainly clever, Sir TNly Joe.
That'll work !

Pressure data coming soon from MIB, on the 300-gr TSX, 350-gr TSX (and 404gr Shock Hammer):

I've never loaded them that short! Ha!


Bob
www.bigbores.ca

Ha Ha Sir Bob, me too !
No reason in the world to load that 300-gr TSX to 3.200" instead of 3.330" to 3.340"
unless you are wanting to keep the .458 B&M at 2.950" COL looking good against a
.458 WinMag at 3.200", with the same bullet.
Let it play out and we will hopefully get to some longer COL.
Doc M is crazy like a fox.
He is the reason the CEB Safari Solids have such crazy band structures,
designed to perfection for a .458 B&M with 2.240" brass length and 2.95" Max COL.

Even at 3.200" COL, the .458 WinMag with 76.0 grains of H4198 is a hummer with the 300-gr TSX:



Remember the Western Powders data and load as long as your rifle will allow:



Rough rules of thumb being considered for the .458 WinMag:

1. 0.1" longer COL will reduce pressure about 2000 psi and velocity about 60 fps.
Adding about two grains more powder will get your 60 fps back.
Adding 4 grains more powder will get 120 fps back with that 0.1" longer COL.
Pressures to be measured, I hope, someday.
No problems indicated in my rifles ... so far.

2. 18 fps per inch of barrel is gained from 20" to 24". Lesser gain per inch above 24", greater loss per inch below 20".

A proof that even Euclid would be proud of:





Yes, the .458 Winchester Magnum at 3.600" COL is both bigger in case capacity than the .458 Lott at 3.600" COL
and the .458 Winchester Magnum has a greater chamber + throat length from breech to contact with rifling than the .458 Lott.
The .458 WinMag had a weak sister that begat a nephew to the .458 WinMag.
That nephew is the .458 Lott monkey.
Yes, the .458 WinMag is the proverbial monkey's uncle:



That little feller on the left above is named ".458 Lott."

Norma does same (CIP) MAP for both .458 WM and .458 Lott: 4300 bar or 62,365 psi.
That is one set of shackles off the .458 Winchester Magnum, manacles off.
I expect that they are both same construction in the head, for NORMA brass.
COL restrictions = ankle chains.
The .458 Winchester Magnum unchained is the .458 WM+: 62,500 psi and 3.600" COL, or even longer with some bullets,
longer than can be done with a SAAMI .458 Lott.

Made some more 458 brass this afternoon and my first batch is in the ultrasonic cleaner now. Primers and powder are now here, hopefully, my bullets will be any day now too. I'm going to prep my brass later today and as soon as the bullets arrive, I will have my first test with my hand loads for the 458WM (currently shot out of a Lott but don't hold that against me). Maybe the 98 will get here this week for testing from a real 458WM chamber as well.

Damn! those 350gr Northfork's in my old 26" barreled lever Marlin 45-70 would be all conus/Alaska/Canada game wreckers, SWEET! wish i hadn't sold that rifle.

GUNNER,
THE 450 GRAIN NF SOLIDS DID TAKE ELE AND BUFF WITH ONE SHOT KILLS FROM MY 26 INCH BARRELLED 1886 45-90.
THAT OLD COMBO JUST KEEPS WORKING AT 2150 FPS MV..

You bet CRS, good stuff man, i have often thought about a little custom double rifle in 45-70 or 90, with of course 26" barrels for balance and pointability.

I am of the belief that the NF 350 gr Expanding-CPS would be decisive on anything in North America, out of anything.458. No idea of their BC, but the larger 458's should toss them out fast enough to perform at 200 yards.

Gunner,
Pic of my 45-90 DR with 26 inch barrels - regulated with 350 grain NF 350ss at 45 yards by Aaron Little - still tight group out at 100 yards. very accurate with scope.

Damn nice little boxlock CRS, congrats Sir.

Oh hell yes LDM, an easy 250 yard hide/meat/bone punch, that thing would strike a mighty blow!

Is anyone loading 458WM and 375H&H with the same powder? If so, what do you like? I'm looking at 300g bullets in the 375(jacketed for now, maybe lead later) and 400g (both lead and copper) in the 458.

Started to resize my cases after depriming, cleaning, primer pocket and charge hole cleaning. Lubed outside of the case as well as the inside of the shoulder, per the instructions. I'm using Lee dies and lube, though I have mostly used imperial in the past, but also that Oneshot spray on stuff. And then immediately stuck it in my die. Do you guys prefer a particular lube or method? Do you do the full length of the case (where normally you would not do the shoulder on a bottleneck)? Any tips or tricks would be much appreciated!