Home Forums Hunting & Shooting General Big Game The Bigger Fool?

Just found out today I get to hunt Kodiak bears again this coming spring, but in back-up mode (I cannot get another tag for four years.) My wife drew a tag for the Kupreanof Penninsula and a friend drew one for Terror Bay and Uganik Island. My wife will probably choose to bring her 7-08 (140gr X bullets) and Troy will be using a bow, stick and string style... no mechanical advantage at all. Troy is extremely competent and has lots of string time and kills. He was within 15yards of two grizzlies last fall and did not release an arrow in either case because he could not get the shot he needed. He absolutely does not want me to shoot unless there is no way his mojo worked and he has a wounded bear getting away.

I will most likely pack along my 375AI.

So here is the question... The bigger fool would be...

A) My wife for having anything to do with me... Errr...I mean for using her 7-08?

B) Troy for trusting me to back him up... Errr... for trying to kill a bear like that with stick and string?

C) Me for going along with either of these lunatics?

D) Ain't no nuts in this tree?
art

Layne Simpson has killed many bears. You should definitely consult with him on any details. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Boss

I too, have whacked a bear or two, but I like your idea <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> Only problem is that Layne and his editors seem uninterested in chatting!<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

art

I haven't been able to get through by email to Hunting or Mr. Rupp. The addresses in the mag and the ones they gave me over the phone just are not accepting.

He has extensive experience hunting and especially bear hunting that I figure he usually knows more than some guides would about hunting and shooting but he would not be intimately familiar with a geographical area but he should have been aware of local game laws.

Jackie Bushman replies to me so who knows what I will find. Flinch would roar if he could see what Mr. Bushman wrote me about his grizzly kill.

Yeah, I would consult Layne Simpson on this one, Sitka, since this seems like some nasty decisions you need to make. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I'd probably up the pill size some on the 7-08 if it was me! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

Sitka Deer,

My vote goes to you, as being the larger fool.

Worst case scenerio is that you decide to shoot. But! Your wife, or Troy, think that you were to hasty with the shot, and now you've soured them for 4 more years. Or, you shoot too late, and the bear escapes.

Best case scenerio, you don't have to shoot, but now you've got to help skin and pack. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

If you play your cards right, perhaps your hunters will wander off to hunt by themselves, a la Layne Simpson...

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Being that the weather is about to turn sour, you should elect to hunt alone & let your wife back Troy up with her 7mm-08. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
badger

Sounds to me like you need someone along to film again <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />.

"Today ladies and gentlemen, we bring you LIVE, the Darwin Awards, episode 14!!!!"

Say Muley,

Speaking of video, is there a Campfire DVD coming out soon?

I'll vote with BW, YOU!!!

The real worst case scenario is that you are going to be the only back-up there and if your friend's brown bear decides to charge after being hit with an arrow at a range of 25 yards you are only going to get one shot then the slowest person is in a lot of trouble. Even the great Fred Bear had two or more back-up rifles when he was hunting brown and polar bears. This also goes for your wife because in my opinion the 7mm-08 is not big enough for any brown bear. Lawdog

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> BW, I had a little interuption in the plan -- got a job <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />.

I'm working on it though. I'm finishing up a similar project for a friend with a bunch of Africa hunts. He gets the first run this week and as soon as i get his blessing on the end product, I'll be able to delete his stuff off the computer to make room for the rest of the campfire videos. Things will go fast once I get them captured, but it may be a month or so.

My worst case scenario involves your bud poking the bear with his pointy stick or, your wife connecting with the 7 mm and the bear makes it to thick cover with a lot of life left in him. Now, someone has to go into a thicket with 3-5 ft visibilty to look for a wounded bear. Want to take bets on who'd be elected to take the point on that mission?

I think I'd arrange for lower back pain or a migraine, on the day of the hunt.

Writer Bob Robb took an interior grizzly with a 280, 160 partition at 2850 fps. Bob Hagel used the 7 mm to take them.



Layne Simpson may have killed many bears, but only two were brown bears. He shot them with a 358 STA-250 Partition and a 300 Ultra-180 Partition. In his article "Lessons From 85 Dead Brown Bears" he details the kills of Johnson's Wildeman Lake lodge. Interestingly, the 270 Winchester took 2 Browns and both fell to one shot, one to a woman using a 150 Nosler - chest shot on a standing, facing bear. It would be similar to the 140 Barnes in the 7-08 in performance. Hunters with 300 Magnums fared better than those with 338's, Simpson speculating the 338 hunters tend to be 270 or 30-06 hunters in the States with the 338 being used very little. The 375 Hunters did well, also, Simpson speculating such owners would have more experience. Seven were taken with 30-06, 264 Mag, 7 Rem Mag.



One Shot Kills 300 Mags 25%

338 17%

375 25%







300 Mags 338 375



Backup needed 35% 66% 38%

Average shots 3.75 3.44* 3.44*

*combined average



Of course, these are just clips from the article and post this only because he is a topic of discussion here recently.



I'd tell the bowhunter I had an absolutely essential trip to Europe already scheduled. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />To me it is like the old statement as to why would anyone want to jump out of a perfectly good airplane. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Seriously, you know what you are doing, so why not.

Spot
Know anyone? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

BW
My wife would not be concerned if I had to shoot her bear if she shot poorly... she would be far more concerned about getting the job done, than who else may have needed to shoot. Troy would be real upset if he shot the bear poorly and it required a shot from me, but he would know where the fault lay and get over it.

He would likely be unhappy if there ws a question about how well-shot the bear was though. I would look at it as both risk and responsibility I am willing to shoulder in order to do the best job possible for them. Where else are they going to get someone that works as cheap as I?

I have seen quite a few bears shot with a wide range of cartridges and am not convinced that it takes an awful lot to more to kill a bear than it does a moose, but the bears do generally die slower.

Boss
Those are interesting numbers and while I have not kept score that way, it does fit in my sense of how things work. I think the average 338 shooter is recoil-shy and it affects their performance. I am certain the 7-08 is enough gun for any good angle shot, but it is a limiting factor for bad angle shots...
art

xgrunt
I have been there, done that, on wounded bears and it can be hairy, but it would need to be done for Troy's bear whether I shoot or not simply by the nature of archery hunting. Frankly, I would rather be on point in the circumstances described because the option of following and having folks in my way would bother me if I had to shoot.
art

Sitka Deer,

Of course your going to do a great job. I was just pointing out some of the consequences when things go wrong.

Not that I was telling you anything new. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

BW
Believe me, I am not above scrwing things up royally and pissing everybody off, just that these are more forgiving people than most... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
art

Yeah, where is the cameraman for these adventures, Sitka? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

bearstalker
I wish I knew... heard he got a day job and is now better than everybody else <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> Actually, I think he caught cold posing naked with his new computer on the new job and didn't realize he was doing it in front of a one-way mirror. Fortunately the new boss is attracted to shaved chests and it saved his bacon! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

Another rumor had it that he was so excited about the new job he was lap-dancing for his lap-top and twisted a toe. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> surgery is likely to keep him trussed up for awhile! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

You should try to get the DVD out of him... he did a great job on the bear hunts!!! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

...just trying to keep up with what life is throwing my way. 3+ hours of daily commutes, dealing with my wife's emergency surgery and a house full of sick kids. She's out of town for most of the next two weeks now, so it's single working dad this time around. And, no matter how much watering I do, the barn just isn't growing back like I'd hoped. Guess I'm going to have to build it myself after all (grin). No complaints though. Mtgoat's trajedy sure puts things into perspective.

BTW Sitka, likely not a big surprise but I didn't draw the moose tag! Oh, well -- next time!