Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Express Rifles and Big Bores Only The great 458 Winchester. Everyone should own one at least once

LOL on that walking dead hand Sir Ron, he's damn sure putting away the whale blubber ; ] never saw the show, also very surprised at the pressure differences between WW and Norma brass, crazy stuff.

Has anyone used the CEB 295g super short safari raptor? Looks like it might be a good choice for domestic hunting.

[quote=gunner500) ".... also very surprised at the pressure differences between WW and Norma brass, crazy stuff.[/quote]

Shows the fallacy of relying on a single source. Personally, I'd like to have seen results from a 24" - 25" barrel. There are too many variables to jump to firm conclusions. If we take Accurate as a source, the results from MIB are disappointing in comparison... as well as Hodgdon's older results. Then again, this test was of a single new 404gr. And thanks to Sir Ron for his expert analysis and getting this done.

Bob
www.bigbores.ca

Sir Jerry and Sir Bob,

I have no answer except to think there is something different about the lot of powder MIB has for AA-2460.

Sir Jerry worked up to excellent results in his rifle, even went to 83 gr and backed off to 81 grains.
He had a different lot of powder is the biggest difference.
And we are only talking about a difference of one or two grains of powder.
The rifle chamber and barrel differences alone could do that.
Still scratching my head over that one.
I would use Sir Jerry's loads in Sir Jerry's rifle without reservation,
and know they are as good as it gets for all practical purposes.

More data from MIB will be forthcoming.
I trust the work there. Michael McCourry is good.

You bet Sirs Bob and Ron, i have to wonder about the WW brass having less powder capacity, the smaller combustion chamber could account for the higher pressure, but velocities being so close between the two makes me wonder, only other thing i can come up with is due to the smaller capacity, maybe some of the 2460 granules are being crushed just enough to speed up the burn rate, same/same with compressing black powder.

It all remains good, i'll stick solid with my 404gr Hammer load at 2500+ fps, have already let the rifle and ammo cook on a concrete slab for four hours at 101 degrees, all good, i need to find a heavy hard bossed 40+ inch Cape Buffaol bull to give them a good working out on, cool proofing on the way shortly.

Just a thank you to the Knights and our factual and faithful leader Sir Ron for the investment in learning and sharing that goes on here.
Because of this tone and timbre, we have met and appreciated a great group of solid people that we would have never known otherwise.
Just the tested results of 2230 and 2460 alone submitted to one’s brain are foundational to much learning and proof of same, about the loading of smokeless into cartridges.
It’s just joyful to be part of such cadre.
Best regards,
F01

Couldn't agree more, I appreciate all the great info and the help.
I Just fired my first 6 reloaded rounds, and am heading out to do some more radar and group testing in a few minutes. The first 6 hit my intended velocity right off the bat with a starting load of 2015, so now I have to do some accuracy testing with that load, as well as another bullet I picked up. Used Sir Ron's lube technique of 7 cases on the Lyman pad with RCDS2 lube. Worked a treat, and much faster than the Imperial I used on the first batch of cases. That Lee must have been bad or something, never had an issue like that before. I have only used One shot on my 45-70 cases and never had a problem with that either.

When you guys finish resizing, do you prefer to wipe the cases off and drive on, or do you tumble or ultrasound them again before trimming, priming, etc?

I agree totally with the above thank full Comments!!!

Can't even Buy a Donkey! Lol!!!

I throw them in the a mix of corn/walnut media for about a half hour.Then i remove them from the media with my hands.Very simple.

I can't attach any photos, or I would show you my 50 and 100 yards load development targets. Using a 410g Hornady bullet (strictly a less expensive practice load), I am getting a little over MOA at 100 yards, with all bullets almost touching. AA2015 is giving me a bit over 2100fps with a starting load. Seems like a good cheap practice load. Thanks again to all for the help getting me started on reloading the great 458WM. Now I have to go load some more, lol.

Thank you Swiftshot, I think that is a popular way to do it. I never did get into tumbling as I started with an ultrasonic cleaner. I have used that to remove lube in the past, no problem. For the .458, I am only loading relatively small amounts at a time, so I have been just wiping the cases down. Just curious how others do things.

Has anyone used Staball 6.5 for loading the .458? Or anything else?

Sir Roo,
That is good. I wipe with paper towel and shoot'em too, for small batch trial.
Aside from the corncob & walnut shell media,
I also have the stainless steel pin tumbler using water +/- the capful of brass cleaner additive.
That is really spiffy for large batches or small.
I reckon Swiftshot is shootaway from the anchor baby site.
I am surprised he gave you such sensible advice.
Should Swiftshot beg for Four Five Eight Knighthood it will have to be put to a vote requiring majority of The Square Table.

I know a guy who is getting good results in his .243 WCF with Winchester Staball 6.5,
close to the 4350's, touted for excellent TBI.
I bet you could concoct some nice high recoil, low velocity, heavy bullet loads for the .458 WinMag if you want to burn that powder in it.

Sir Roo,
Good to hear,
but sure wish you would be a little more forthcoming with details on your loads, for the recording of hallowed .458 WinMag data.
If you want me to post some photos in a gallery here, send me a PM, and I'll do it for you or moi to post here.

I looked up the Hornady Sub-X bullet.
I was ignorant of that development.
Subsonic 410-gr/.458-cal cool.

Sir Ron, I apologize, and will add detail for the load tonight when I get home. I have always thought the SS pins were a neat way to clean cases, but I won a smallish ultrasound from Hornady at a match and have just always used that. It probably saves me a step or two compared to the pins, but also probably doesn't do as good a job as the pins.

The StaBall 6.5 seems like a pretty good idea as far as powders go. Don't think I have seen any 458 loads with it, but it looks good for .375H&H. In mediums, I also like 350RM and 9.3X62 and I don't think I have seen it there either. I will admit to not understanding powder very well. Why would a powder be good in a small case like 6.5C, as well as 375 H&H, but not in something like 9.3X62, or 350RM?

Sounds like it would not be good in 458 either, lol. I'm just looking for more universal powders still, as Varget seems to be impossible these days.

Sir Knights,

Apologies for the dearth of info on my first reload! The load that I have started using for range practice is a 410 grain bullet with a flexible rubber tip. They are bulk packed at Midway, so I'm not sure who makes them, but I think they are Hornady. Federal brass, Fed 215 primer, 68.4g AA2015, loaded to 3.190 COAL. This is listed as a starting load, and I'm averaging 2100fps at the muzzle. The book calls for 3.140 for a 400g bullet and I made this to basically match the COAL of a federal 400g load that I have a little of. I assume (please correct me if I am wrong), that if this was the same bullet as the 400 in the book, that I would be reducing pressure and velocity very slightly by loading it longer than listed. Since this is not the same bullet, I thought that this COAL would either reduce the pressure slightly or maybe equal out given the slight extra weight/length. I prefer not to mess with loading data, and just use it exactly as it is in the book, but since I can't find data for some of the components I have, I did wing it a bit. I also assumed that since this is a starting load, and the pressure is already fairly low, that I would be safe. Seems to be the case.

Sir Roo,
Great addition to the armamentarium.
Must surely be the Hornady Sub-X, bulk pack of blems.
They are available at MidwayUSA. I will have to get some of those.





Surely a tougher bullet than the Sierra 300-gr HP that vaporizes at muzzle exit at 2800 fps.
Good for expansion down to 800 fps, designed for 1100 fps MV subsonic use.
Would make a good surrogate bullet to test at up to 2500 fps MV on paper targets to save on the Hammers.

Here is another good bullet for pairing with the the 380-gr WFN from Lehigh, Sir Larry's favorite.
Both bullets have the same overall length and could be used at same COL, maybe, in SAAMI .458 WM:





I was afraid of that WFN not feeding well but it works fine in my bolt-action rifles
including the M70 Super Grade converted to .458 WM+, which still handles SAAMI .458 WM just fine,
in its SAAMI .458 WM chamber.
Firing SAAMI .458 WM in a SAAMI .458 Lott causes minor technical issues and some loss of performance.
Always fun to get a dig in at the .458 Lott pretender.