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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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I never thought this thread would get so many responses. I maintain what I said earlier. Flunk Hunting 101 and you'll need to shoot 600 yards. Yep, hitting your target at 600 yards consistently is more like a 300- or 400-level course.
A wise man is frequently humbled.
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I never thought this thread would get so many responses. I maintain what I said earlier. Flunk Hunting 101 and you'll need to shoot 600 yards. That's a broad oversimplification. Would you agree that the more you limit yourself, the more you'll have to pass up opportunities and go home empty-handed? To paraphrase another poster, I like stalking close but I like meat in the freezer even more. I like to train and develop all skill sets that can lead to taking advantage of as many opportunities as possible (both related to stalking close and shooting long). Some of the issues with long range shooting is something I don't see discussed much. Those are:
Where did that animal go after it was shot?
Will I be able to find the game?
Will the bullet/load create enough of a blood trail at that distance?
Will I find the game animal during daylight?
Will the game animal run down a ravine, and will I have to carry the meat out? Those are not unique to LR shooting, and can be issues regardless of shot distance.
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Jordan,
I haven't been on this site as long as a lot of fellas, but I have observed that you talk a lot of sense. Plenty of science, not much emotion or mental baggage, and a healthy dose of real-world experience thrown in. Kinda like that Barsness guy.
Regards,
Rex
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...But, if your skills are already up to it, and your rifle is MOA at 400, then I still think you add a set of quality rings, bases and a SWFA, ARKEN, Trij, etc onto your gun and just shoot before you really get knee deep into a build. Wearing a throat some will definitely tell you if you need to change it up. 600 is pretty easy for a plain old 22-250 with normal bullets if you have the gun/optics to aim them, and you'll learn a helluva lot about wind with something like that as well. 600 is doable w/ my current 22" rig, just not optimum. It's an 8.5 lb. M70 w/ a 2.5-8x36mm scope. Shoots great. Like it just the way it is for 99% of my hunting. The pencil Bbl'ed M700 in the freezer just sits there. What is the particular problem w/ the idea of spinning on a longer/heavier Bbl., and maybe some better glass and gadgets, for a dedicated longer range hunting rifle? Unfathomable. GR Your plan as stated will work except for one thing. A reliable long range scope suited for dialing and good mounts needs to be your first priority, not your last. You could put that on your current rifle and do measurably better than a new fast twist barrel with your optic described above. If funds will allow, do both. If not, do the optic first, burn out your current barrel learning, then put a new barrel on after that. I understand already being set up for .270. John
If my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14
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I never thought this thread would get so many responses. I maintain what I said earlier. Flunk Hunting 101 and you'll need to shoot 600 yards. That's a broad oversimplification. Would you agree that the more you limit yourself, the more you'll have to pass up opportunities and go home empty-handed? To paraphrase another poster, I like stalking close but I like meat in the freezer even more. I like to train and develop all skill sets that can lead to taking advantage of as many opportunities as possible (both related to stalking close and shooting long). Some of the issues with long range shooting is something I don't see discussed much. Those are:
Where did that animal go after it was shot?
Will I be able to find the game?
Will the bullet/load create enough of a blood trail at that distance?
Will I find the game animal during daylight?
Will the game animal run down a ravine, and will I have to carry the meat out? Those are not unique to LR shooting, and can be issues regardless of shot distance. I whole-heartedly disagree, for a multiple of reasons!
Last edited by Bugger; 08/24/22.
I prefer classic.
Semper Fi
I used to run with the hare. Now I'm envious of the tortoise and I do my own stunts but rarely intentionally
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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None of those have ever been an issue for you or your acquaintances at other than long ranges?
How often are they issues for you and your friends at long ranges?
A wise man is frequently humbled.
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This thread is supposedly about a 270 being the end all be all hands down best caliber out to 600 yards for deer and possibly elk... Actually, this thread is RE: building a 600 yd capable hunting rifle around a 5R/1:8 twist long throated 24" Bbl. and .270 Win./150-165 gr high BC bullets at ~ 3000-2900 fps at the muzzle respectively. That's it GR "Already have a scoped rifle that handles < 400 yards just fine, and am a competent rifleman out to well beyond that. Thinking about building a hunting rifle good for 600 yards." "Most of my 400+ shooting has been with service rifles w/ aperture sights." From reading your post, You are not new to the shooting game. You state you are competent out to well beyond 400yds. And most of your 400+ yds have been with aperture sights. I say build the rifle you want. It's your money. Put a good scope on it and Bang away. You will soon learn its capabilities and yours. Everyone had to start somewhere. With practice and tweaking your loads I'm sure you will be banging steel at 600yds in no time. Post up some Pic's of the build and let us know how it goes. Good Luck to You and enjoy your new rifle.
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Jordan,
I haven't been on this site as long as a lot of fellas, but I have observed that you talk a lot of sense. Plenty of science, not much emotion or mental baggage, and a healthy dose of real-world experience thrown in. Kinda like that Barsness guy.
Regards,
Rex Thanks for the kind words, Rex! If I’m being lumped in with JB, then I’m in good company.
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I never thought this thread would get so many responses. I maintain what I said earlier. Flunk Hunting 101 and you'll need to shoot 600 yards. That's a broad oversimplification. Would you agree that the more you limit yourself, the more you'll have to pass up opportunities and go home empty-handed? To paraphrase another poster, I like stalking close but I like meat in the freezer even more. I like to train and develop all skill sets that can lead to taking advantage of as many opportunities as possible (both related to stalking close and shooting long). Some of the issues with long range shooting is something I don't see discussed much. Those are:
Where did that animal go after it was shot?
Will I be able to find the game?
Will the bullet/load create enough of a blood trail at that distance?
Will I find the game animal during daylight?
Will the game animal run down a ravine, and will I have to carry the meat out? Those are not unique to LR shooting, and can be issues regardless of shot distance. I whole-heartedly disagree, for a multiple of reasons! Please elaborate! memtb
You should not use a rifle that will kill an animal when everything goes right; you should use one that will do the job when everything goes wrong." -Bob Hagel
“I’d like to be a good rifleman…..but, I prefer to be a good hunter”! memtb 2024
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Unless you can consistently clean the NRA MR target at 600yds from your field positions, you have no business shooting at an elk at 600.
One of our more famous long range shooters posted a photo on here of an elk he shot at a similar distance. I noted that if he hadn't luckily hit the spine, it would have been a gut-shot. His response? Crickets. I wonder how many he has failed to bring to bag?
Politics is War by Other Means
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Unless you can consistently clean the NRA MR target at 600yds from your field positions, you have no business shooting at an elk at 600.
One of our more famous long range shooters posted a photo on here of an elk he shot at a similar distance. I noted that if he hadn't luckily hit the spine, it would have been a gut-shot. His response? Crickets. I wonder how many he has failed to bring to bag? I agree……mostly! For elk sized animals……I’d expand my target zone to 10”…..but, that’s just me! memtb
Last edited by memtb; 08/25/22.
You should not use a rifle that will kill an animal when everything goes right; you should use one that will do the job when everything goes wrong." -Bob Hagel
“I’d like to be a good rifleman…..but, I prefer to be a good hunter”! memtb 2024
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Politics is War by Other Means
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Thanks…..that’s “mo better”! I don’t know how I determined that it was 6”! 🤔 memtb
You should not use a rifle that will kill an animal when everything goes right; you should use one that will do the job when everything goes wrong." -Bob Hagel
“I’d like to be a good rifleman…..but, I prefer to be a good hunter”! memtb 2024
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I never thought this thread would get so many responses. I maintain what I said earlier. Flunk Hunting 101 and you'll need to shoot 600 yards. That's a broad oversimplification. Would you agree that the more you limit yourself, the more you'll have to pass up opportunities and go home empty-handed? To paraphrase another poster, I like stalking close but I like meat in the freezer even more. I like to train and develop all skill sets that can lead to taking advantage of as many opportunities as possible (both related to stalking close and shooting long). Some of the issues with long range shooting is something I don't see discussed much. Those are:
Where did that animal go after it was shot?
Will I be able to find the game?
Will the bullet/load create enough of a blood trail at that distance?
Will I find the game animal during daylight?
Will the game animal run down a ravine, and will I have to carry the meat out? Those are not unique to LR shooting, and can be issues regardless of shot distance. I whole-heartedly disagree, for a multiple of reasons! Please elaborate! memtb Bullet performance at - 200 yards vs. 600 yards Watching an animal after it's hit - 200 yards vs. 600 yards Ability to place bullets where they should go - 200 yards vs. 600 yards The chance of wounding a game animal -200 yards vs. 600 yards The "whoopee" of I was able to kill an animal at 600 yards seems more to me like poor sportsmanship, low respect for the game. To me it's just a bragging thing not a hunting thing!
I prefer classic.
Semper Fi
I used to run with the hare. Now I'm envious of the tortoise and I do my own stunts but rarely intentionally
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Campfire Ranger
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Thanks…..that’s “mo better”! I don’t know how I determined that it was 6”! 🤔 memtb The F-Class target 10 ring is 6"...
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Thanks…..that’s “mo better”! I don’t know how I determined that it was 6”! 🤔 memtb That's the X ring. 
Politics is War by Other Means
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What Does It Take - to Hunt Medium/Large Game at 600 Yards?
shooting a good group centered on target at 600 yards.
I have done that with 7mmRM and 6.5-06.
That is my upper limit.
Bart Bobbitt in 1997 shot a 3.25" (20) shot group at 800 yards with a 308.
I will never be able to shoot like Bart Bobbitt.
There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. -Ernest Hemingway
The man who makes no mistakes does not usually make anything.-- Edward John Phelps
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Unless you can consistently clean the NRA MR target at 600yds from your field positions in conditions in which you would take a shot at a game animal, you have no business shooting at an elk at 600. While I agree with the principle of holding oneself to a specific standard of marksmanship for shooting at game animals, I would point out a couple of things: For some reason, this notion typically only comes up when we are talking about shooting game animals at 500, 600, etc., yards. I have witnessed the shooting of many hunters who can’t keep all their shots within 12” at 100/200/300 yards from field positions, even in ideal conditions. I have observed hunters who have a far higher miss/wound rate at 200 yards or less than I do at any distance and set of conditions in which I would take a shot (including 600 yards in the right conditions). I find it interesting that we rarely comment here on the forums that people have no business hunting game animals at all until they have practiced and developed sufficient marksmanship to place all shots within 10-12” at a given distance at which they would shoot an animal. My other point relates to the modification I made to the above quote. There are situations and conditions in which I would absolutely not take a shot at a game animal at 600 yards, and others where I certainly would (and have). This is no different than if the animal were at 300 yards. It’s fine to be critical of hunters who miss or wound, but are we as critical of a guy who does it at 300 yards as we are of the guy who misses or wounds at 600 yards? A miss or wounding shot is possible for two types of reasons, regardless of distance: factors outside of our control, and factors within our control. I would argue that an ethical hunter should mitigate all factors within their control that might lead to a miss/wound, and only shoot in conditions where the factors outside their control are minimized as much as possible.
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You’re far to kind Jordan. Your points make a bunch of sense but to varying places we all hunt, 300 yards is really far for some while 600 is just warming up for others. Trying to sort out emotional opinions on it will never get much further than everyone getting a little butthurt their opinion isn’t the most popular.
Semper Fi
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You guys can brag all you want about your ability to shoot game at 600 yards. To me you deserve zero respect for it. It just shows you do not know how to hunt.
I prefer classic.
Semper Fi
I used to run with the hare. Now I'm envious of the tortoise and I do my own stunts but rarely intentionally
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