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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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Referring to how resistant some LE agencies are to change, I think until sometime in the 1980's all Missouri Highway Patrol troopers were issued and required to carry their sidearm in a right hand holster - even if the trooper was left handed. Uniformity of appearance was more important than the safety and effectiveness of the trooper.
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
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Joined: Aug 2004
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 69,698 Likes: 23 |
Referring to how resistant some LE agencies are to change, I think until sometime in the 1980's all Missouri Highway Patrol troopers were issued and required to carry their sidearm in a right hand holster - even if the trooper was left handed. Uniformity of appearance was more important than the safety and effectiveness of the trooper. Idiot top brass. Common, but that example is pure stupidity.
Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla!
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Joined: Aug 2007
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Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Aug 2007
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Referring to how resistant some LE agencies are to change, I think until sometime in the 1980's all Missouri Highway Patrol troopers were issued and required to carry their sidearm in a right hand holster - even if the trooper was left handed. Uniformity of appearance was more important than the safety and effectiveness of the trooper. MontanaMarine can relate. LOL
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual. Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit. My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
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Joined: Jun 2002
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Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Jun 2002
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Savvy lawmen did use and love the 1911 and Browning Hi-Power for years but these were mostly relegated to real professionals that belonged to departments or agencies that allowed for such things. Remember the scene in Serpico where he was picking up a department Browning Hi Power, and all the comments he got from other cops about it?
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Joined: Jun 2002
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Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Jun 2002
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Back in the day, I had upper brass ask why we needed hollow point ammo, when 158gr LRN worked just fine for all these years...
Ignorance is the hardest thing to overcome. That and ignorance in training.
Everyone shot at the police range with 30spl. It was hammered into them to never let the brass hit the ground when reloading. Either put it in your pocket, or dump it in the brass can by your firing station.
Then a couple of cops were found dead with their empty brass in the pants pockets. Sometimes it takes a graphic example like that to sink the lessons in.
Those of us who carried rifles usually had to get special permission to do so. The way I heard the story was that, at the police ranges they were taught to pocket the brass (or put it in a bucket) rather than dump it because the department reloaded the brass so didn't want it damaged. Cops got killed because while reloading their revolvers they instinctively looked around for the bucket to put the brass in rather than just dumping it and reloading.
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Joined: Jun 2002
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Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
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I don't let them get that far with the lecture. When they mention it's cocked, I tell them that's 100% safe and how one is to be carried... Then turn my attention elsewhere.  Jeff Cooper recounted in one of his books a story about a deputy in the crowd watching a parade. A kid pointed out to him that his pistol was cocked. He said he knew it was. The kid said, "Well, isn't that dangerous?" He bent over, put his face next to the kid's, and said, "You damn betcha."
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Joined: Nov 2018
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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Mackay,
I was wondering why something such as the 1911 didn't get adopt by law enforcement after WWII and stayed with their revolvers. I always thought it was because of 1911's reliability issues. Good feedback! A lot of police administrators didn't like the fact that a 1911 needed to be carried "clicked and locked" to the average citizen that looked scary. I've had several people come up to me and ask if I knew my pistol was cocked...  Yup! Early in my career, carrying the 1911 I'd carefully explain why it was carried that way... Later I'd just reply "Yes, I like it that way." That seemed to stop conversation but probably wasn't very good for public relations. Guy
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2009
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I think the main reason for the switch to semi autos was they needed to be able to defend themselves better if they ever got involved in a fire fight with the bad guys.The drug trafficking changed a lot of things for law enforcement officers in the late 1980's.Those guys were sometimes heavily armed with auto weapons and the officers were really out gunned carrying a S&W revolver.
~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~
As Bob Hagel would say"You should not use a rifle that will kill an animal when everything goes right; you should use one that will do the job when everything goes wrong."Good words of wisdom...............
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 69,698 Likes: 23 |
I don't let them get that far with the lecture. When they mention it's cocked, I tell them that's 100% safe and how one is to be carried... Then turn my attention elsewhere. Jeff Cooper recounted in one of his books a story about a deputy in the crowd watching a parade. A kid pointed out to him that his pistol was cocked. He said he knew it was. The kid said, "Well, isn't that dangerous?" He bent over, put his face next to the kid's, and said, "You damn betcha."
Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla!
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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one reason : 1986 fbi miami shootout
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Joined: Mar 2009
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2009
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~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~
As Bob Hagel would say"You should not use a rifle that will kill an animal when everything goes right; you should use one that will do the job when everything goes wrong."Good words of wisdom...............
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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There's a sign on I80 just as you go east into New Jersey as a memorial to a NJ trooper killed there in a shootout. He was reloading his revolver when the bad guys shot him with their semi-autos. NJ later adopted a H&K 9mm.
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Joined: May 2014
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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Because semi-autos in general suck. The lack of training by the police force - that is they can't hit stuff caused the need for high-capacity magazines. If they could shoot straight there would have been no need for the [bleep] semi-autos.
I prefer classic.
Semper Fi
I used to run with the hare. Now I'm envious of the tortoise and I do my own stunts but rarely intentionally
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Joined: Mar 2005
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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Because semi-autos in general suck. The lack of training by the police force - that is they can't hit stuff caused the need for high-capacity magazines. If they could shoot straight there would have been no need for the [bleep] semi-autos. Drink some prune juice and get another nap. Hopefully you come back in a better mood.
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
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Joined: Mar 2020
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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Because semi-autos in general suck. The lack of training by the police force - that is they can't hit stuff caused the need for high-capacity magazines. If they could shoot straight there would have been no need for the [bleep] semi-autos. Incredible.
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Joined: Apr 2005
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2005
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Because semi-autos in general suck. The lack of training by the police force - that is they can't hit stuff caused the need for high-capacity magazines. If they could shoot straight there would have been no need for the [bleep] semi-autos. Never ever seen a down side to more ammo. Bill Allard was involved in more shootouts than anyone in NYPD history and it is sald that he never missed in a shout out and he ran in 1911 dry and his 12 guage with buckshot dry before stopping 2 felons. More ammo is better than less
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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Joined: Aug 2007
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Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424 Likes: 13 |
Because semi-autos in general suck. The lack of training by the police force - that is they can't hit stuff caused the need for high-capacity magazines. If they could shoot straight there would have been no need for the [bleep] semi-autos. The saddest thing about dumb ass fugking comments like this is that the concept of "fire and maneuver" was developed between WWI and WWII and was the basis of an increased ammo capacity in combination of a higher rate of fire than could be achieved by a bolt action. In other words, it's 1910ish type thinking.
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual. Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit. My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
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Joined: Sep 2001
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2001
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The Glock 17 was fielded in 1982, or thereabouts. That is when the Tsunami of change began.
Around the same time, ammo was improving, and the Glock was reliable, fairly simple to learn, and easy to operate under stress.
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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Would love to have a NY state trooper .45 Colt New Service.
Old guy, old guns.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 21,892 Likes: 7 |
Know of one local force that required officers to buy their own
gun in the 80's. Pretty mhch anything was acceptable, except a 1911.
The policy was "a 45 was an excessive show of force".
Due to all the BS talk about how powerful it was, I guess.
Sherriff, his deputies and and the Town Clowns in our county
favored it.
Parents who say they have good kids..Usually don't!
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