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Yeah, but still not matching yours!


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Originally Posted by Blackheart
Originally Posted by Mule Deer
Originally Posted by Blackheart
We do put limits on what technology can be employed with respect to sportsmanship, ethics and what constitutes "fair chase". The question is whether or not the technology that allows the killing of game at ranges beyond which they can detect danger constitutes fair chase hunting practice. I tend to think it does not.

Another comment I'd like to make is on this broad comment by Blackheart--which implies that hunters in general have a broad consensus of what "fair chase" means.

They do not. I've been lucky enough to hunt in over half of the 50 United States, along with over a dozen other countries, some of them several times. The regulations concerning legal "weapons" vary considerably, including cartridges, bullet diameters and weights, as well as bows, muzzleloaders, etc. Legal shooting hours also vary considerably: While most American states (and Canadian provinces) pretty much stick to a half-hour before sunrise to a half-hour after sunset for "game" animals, some allow an hour before and after. Some states and countries also allow all-night shooting--some only for certain animals, and some not.

There are also widely varying laws about the use of artificial lights, baiting, etc. In fact in some parts of the world (including in the U.S) I have talked to hunters who are completely baffled by how somebody might hunt a wild big game animal by just going out and looking for them--rather than sitting near to a pile of potatoes, a "greenfield", an automatic corn-feeder--or sitting in a stand where trained dogs push animals near the hunter.

Some allow hunting any sort of big game with dogs, while others ban it completely. A few allow night- or dog-hunting for some species, but not others.

If I included the methods allowed for fishing this could go on forever--but my main point is that no, there is no consensus "on what technology can be employed with respect to sportsmanship, ethics and what constitutes 'fair chase'."

It might seem so to somebody who's only hunted in a very limited part of the world, such as Blackheart in New York. But there is no world-wide, sport-hunting consensus on what constitutes "fair chase."
I'm aware of all of that and did not intend to imply broad consesus about what is sporting or fair chase across state lines. And here you are increasing your post count on this thread again.
Could be you're an [bleep] Blacky.

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I didn't know there was a post limit. Also didn't realize there was no room for dissenting opinions.

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I think lazer rangefinders help my archery hunting more so than rifle/slug/ muzzle loading.

If one buys a tag to harvest an animal owned by the state.

Why would it behoove the state to mandate ineffective measures?

Would this not waste a resource ?


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Blackheart,

There obviously is no limit on Campfire posting, though apparently some members are judged by how many/few they make--in both directions.

In your case, quantity isn't the problem.


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Yeah, gotta go along to get along. Biden and the Democrats made that crystal clear last night.

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Originally Posted by Raferman
Originally Posted by Blackheart
Originally Posted by Mule Deer
Originally Posted by Blackheart
We do put limits on what technology can be employed with respect to sportsmanship, ethics and what constitutes "fair chase". The question is whether or not the technology that allows the killing of game at ranges beyond which they can detect danger constitutes fair chase hunting practice. I tend to think it does not.

Another comment I'd like to make is on this broad comment by Blackheart--which implies that hunters in general have a broad consensus of what "fair chase" means.

They do not. I've been lucky enough to hunt in over half of the 50 United States, along with over a dozen other countries, some of them several times. The regulations concerning legal "weapons" vary considerably, including cartridges, bullet diameters and weights, as well as bows, muzzleloaders, etc. Legal shooting hours also vary considerably: While most American states (and Canadian provinces) pretty much stick to a half-hour before sunrise to a half-hour after sunset for "game" animals, some allow an hour before and after. Some states and countries also allow all-night shooting--some only for certain animals, and some not.

There are also widely varying laws about the use of artificial lights, baiting, etc. In fact in some parts of the world (including in the U.S) I have talked to hunters who are completely baffled by how somebody might hunt a wild big game animal by just going out and looking for them--rather than sitting near to a pile of potatoes, a "greenfield", an automatic corn-feeder--or sitting in a stand where trained dogs push animals near the hunter.

Some allow hunting any sort of big game with dogs, while others ban it completely. A few allow night- or dog-hunting for some species, but not others.

If I included the methods allowed for fishing this could go on forever--but my main point is that no, there is no consensus "on what technology can be employed with respect to sportsmanship, ethics and what constitutes 'fair chase'."

It might seem so to somebody who's only hunted in a very limited part of the world, such as Blackheart in New York. But there is no world-wide, sport-hunting consensus on what constitutes "fair chase."
I'm aware of all of that and did not intend to imply broad consesus about what is sporting or fair chase across state lines. And here you are increasing your post count on this thread again.
Could be you're an [bleep] Blacky.
Could be {whatever "bleep" is}. But I like me better than anybody else I've ever met. Could be you're one too. In fact, I'm pretty sure of it.

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Originally Posted by Angus1895
I think lazer rangefinders help my archery hunting more so than rifle/slug/ muzzle loading.
I use mine mainly for pre ranging landmarks around my bow stands. Works better and is more convenient than the old tape measure. It stays home during rifle season.

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I’m not impressed by bow hunters who boast of long range shots. Too great of a chance to wound game. If lasers were outlawed, it might put an end to that 😏.

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Originally Posted by WMR
I’m not impressed by bow hunters who boast of long range shots. Too great of a chance to wound game. If lasers were outlawed, it might put an end to that 😏.
Haven't seen any bow hunters boasting of long range shots.

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Originally Posted by Blackheart
Originally Posted by WMR
I’m not impressed by bow hunters who boast of long range shots. Too great of a chance to wound game. If lasers were outlawed, it might put an end to that 😏.
Haven't seen any bow hunters boasting of long range shots.


You’ve paid little attention. Extending the range of bows is becoming more and more common. Poundage ratings are increasing all the time with some custom rigs reaching 90-100s. People are doing custom sight tapes often out to 110 yards!

With my archery setup, I am comfortable to 40 yard shots on game. I’ve made target shots out to 90 yards. With rifles, I’ve made shots close to a mile target shooting but I will take big game shots out to 800 or so.

The notion that using a laser rangefinder should be outlawed is asinine as it is merely a tool to decrease the chance that an animal may be wounded. Ranging can be done in other ways including manual ranging with a reticle, maps, and even cell phone apps. Would it also be made illegal to have a cell phone while hunting? A mil-dot master? To what purpose? And most importantly, what business is it of yours how others’ hunt?


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Originally Posted by drop_point
Originally Posted by Blackheart
Originally Posted by WMR
I’m not impressed by bow hunters who boast of long range shots. Too great of a chance to wound game. If lasers were outlawed, it might put an end to that 😏.
Haven't seen any bow hunters boasting of long range shots.


You’ve paid little attention. Extending the range of bows is becoming more and more common. Poundage ratings are increasing all the time with some custom rigs reaching 90-100s. People are doing custom sight tapes often out to 110 yards!

With my archery setup, I am comfortable to 40 yard shots on game. I’ve made target shots out to 90 yards. With rifles, I’ve made shots close to a mile target shooting but I will take big game shots out to 800 or so.

The notion that using a laser rangefinder should be outlawed is asinine as it is merely a tool to decrease the chance that an animal may be wounded. Ranging can be done in other ways including manual ranging with a reticle, maps, and even cell phone apps. Would it also be made illegal to have a cell phone while hunting? A mil-dot master? To what purpose? And most importantly, what business is it of yours how others’ hunt?

We’ll, yea, I mean,….there’s that. Anyway, you’ve got some nerve interjecting reason and sense into a 20 page dumpster fire. Talk about unethical! 🤭

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Originally Posted by drop_point
Originally Posted by Blackheart
Originally Posted by WMR
I’m not impressed by bow hunters who boast of long range shots. Too great of a chance to wound game. If lasers were outlawed, it might put an end to that 😏.
Haven't seen any bow hunters boasting of long range shots.


You’ve paid little attention. Extending the range of bows is becoming more and more common. Poundage ratings are increasing all the time with some custom rigs reaching 90-100s. People are doing custom sight tapes often out to 110 yards!

With my archery setup, I am comfortable to 40 yard shots on game. I’ve made target shots out to 90 yards. With rifles, I’ve made shots close to a mile target shooting but I will take big game shots out to 800 or so.

The notion that using a laser rangefinder should be outlawed is asinine as it is merely a tool to decrease the chance that an animal may be wounded. Ranging can be done in other ways including manual ranging with a reticle, maps, and even cell phone apps. Would it also be made illegal to have a cell phone while hunting? A mil-dot master? To what purpose? And most importantly, what business is it of yours how others’ hunt?
Say what you will but before the advent of lazer range finders few hunters entertained the notion of taking 800 yard shots at game. I'm not saying there aren't people capable of making those shots today, there's videos of it all over the net, but that perhaps it falls short of fair chase or sporting to bomb game from distances at which they have little chance of detecting danger. Obviously there are plenty who have little interest in hunting, fair chase or being sporting but only in the killing.

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Originally Posted by Blackheart
Originally Posted by drop_point
Originally Posted by Blackheart
Originally Posted by WMR
I’m not impressed by bow hunters who boast of long range shots. Too great of a chance to wound game. If lasers were outlawed, it might put an end to that 😏.
Haven't seen any bow hunters boasting of long range shots.


You’ve paid little attention. Extending the range of bows is becoming more and more common. Poundage ratings are increasing all the time with some custom rigs reaching 90-100s. People are doing custom sight tapes often out to 110 yards!

With my archery setup, I am comfortable to 40 yard shots on game. I’ve made target shots out to 90 yards. With rifles, I’ve made shots close to a mile target shooting but I will take big game shots out to 800 or so.

The notion that using a laser rangefinder should be outlawed is asinine as it is merely a tool to decrease the chance that an animal may be wounded. Ranging can be done in other ways including manual ranging with a reticle, maps, and even cell phone apps. Would it also be made illegal to have a cell phone while hunting? A mil-dot master? To what purpose? And most importantly, what business is it of yours how others’ hunt?
Say what you will but before the advent of lazer range finders few hunters entertained the notion of taking 800 yard shots at game. I'm not saying there aren't people capable of making those shots today, there's videos of it all over the net, but that perhaps it falls short of fair chase or sporting to bomb game from distances at which they have little chance of detecting danger. Obviously there are plenty who have little interest in hunting, fair chase or being sporting but only in the killing.

Folks been lobbing bullets and arrows past their sure kill range for eons. Tools are evolving but human nature? Not so much.

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Originally Posted by WMR
Originally Posted by drop_point
Originally Posted by Blackheart
Originally Posted by WMR
I’m not impressed by bow hunters who boast of long range shots. Too great of a chance to wound game. If lasers were outlawed, it might put an end to that 😏.
Haven't seen any bow hunters boasting of long range shots.


You’ve paid little attention. Extending the range of bows is becoming more and more common. Poundage ratings are increasing all the time with some custom rigs reaching 90-100s. People are doing custom sight tapes often out to 110 yards!

With my archery setup, I am comfortable to 40 yard shots on game. I’ve made target shots out to 90 yards. With rifles, I’ve made shots close to a mile target shooting but I will take big game shots out to 800 or so.

The notion that using a laser rangefinder should be outlawed is asinine as it is merely a tool to decrease the chance that an animal may be wounded. Ranging can be done in other ways including manual ranging with a reticle, maps, and even cell phone apps. Would it also be made illegal to have a cell phone while hunting? A mil-dot master? To what purpose? And most importantly, what business is it of yours how others’ hunt?

We’ll, yea, I mean,….there’s that. Anyway, you’ve got some nerve interjecting reason and sense into a 20 page dumpster fire. Talk about unethical! 🤭
If you had any reason or sense you'd realize 90 yards is far from beyond the range that a big game animal is capable of detecting a threat.

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Originally Posted by Blackheart
Originally Posted by WMR
Originally Posted by drop_point
Originally Posted by Blackheart
Originally Posted by WMR
I’m not impressed by bow hunters who boast of long range shots. Too great of a chance to wound game. If lasers were outlawed, it might put an end to that 😏.
Haven't seen any bow hunters boasting of long range shots.


You’ve paid little attention. Extending the range of bows is becoming more and more common. Poundage ratings are increasing all the time with some custom rigs reaching 90-100s. People are doing custom sight tapes often out to 110 yards!

With my archery setup, I am comfortable to 40 yard shots on game. I’ve made target shots out to 90 yards. With rifles, I’ve made shots close to a mile target shooting but I will take big game shots out to 800 or so.

The notion that using a laser rangefinder should be outlawed is asinine as it is merely a tool to decrease the chance that an animal may be wounded. Ranging can be done in other ways including manual ranging with a reticle, maps, and even cell phone apps. Would it also be made illegal to have a cell phone while hunting? A mil-dot master? To what purpose? And most importantly, what business is it of yours how others’ hunt?

We’ll, yea, I mean,….there’s that. Anyway, you’ve got some nerve interjecting reason and sense into a 20 page dumpster fire. Talk about unethical! 🤭
If you had any reason or sense you'd realize 90 yards is far from beyond the range that a big game animal is capable of detecting a threat.

This shows you have a flawed sense of ethics. It isn't about game "detecting a threat" most will find unethical. It is taking a shot likely to wound and not provide a clean kill to the game that the average person worries about. Time of flight is the issue here...during that 90 yards of arrow flight, the game could take a step or two resulting in a gut shot or a flank shot, even if you've made a perfect shot. My bullets will reach game at 800 yards much faster than an arrow making a 90 yard trek.

That is the problem, not the hunter's ability to avoid detection.

Last edited by drop_point; 09/03/22.

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Originally Posted by Blackheart
Originally Posted by drop_point
Originally Posted by Blackheart
Originally Posted by WMR
I’m not impressed by bow hunters who boast of long range shots. Too great of a chance to wound game. If lasers were outlawed, it might put an end to that 😏.
Haven't seen any bow hunters boasting of long range shots.


You’ve paid little attention. Extending the range of bows is becoming more and more common. Poundage ratings are increasing all the time with some custom rigs reaching 90-100s. People are doing custom sight tapes often out to 110 yards!

With my archery setup, I am comfortable to 40 yard shots on game. I’ve made target shots out to 90 yards. With rifles, I’ve made shots close to a mile target shooting but I will take big game shots out to 800 or so.

The notion that using a laser rangefinder should be outlawed is asinine as it is merely a tool to decrease the chance that an animal may be wounded. Ranging can be done in other ways including manual ranging with a reticle, maps, and even cell phone apps. Would it also be made illegal to have a cell phone while hunting? A mil-dot master? To what purpose? And most importantly, what business is it of yours how others’ hunt?
Say what you will but before the advent of lazer range finders few hunters entertained the notion of taking 800 yard shots at game. I'm not saying there aren't people capable of making those shots today, there's videos of it all over the net, but that perhaps it falls short of fair chase or sporting to bomb game from distances at which they have little chance of detecting danger. Obviously there are plenty who have little interest in hunting, fair chase or being sporting but only in the killing.

Your idea of fair chase is not shared. The problem is your dismissiveness that those not sharing your ethics are not hunting.

Boone & Crockett go into detail on the subject, not offering a specific other than the marksman's ability to ensure a clean kill. Just because you're unable to make a clean kill doesn't mean others' can't.

Originally Posted by Boone&Crockett
"Ethics, in general, are a set of principles that guide human behavior. Ethics can be private and social, subjective
and objective, emotional and rational. The most basic of all ethical principles is to do no harm to other individuals, communities where you live, society in general, and the biotic community to which all humans belong. Ethics
in hunting are rooted in an overall conservation ethic, which prescribes doing no harm to game populations or
their habitats, or unnecessary or frivolous harm to the individual animals being hunted. Ethical hunting, therefore,
requires both a sustainable and respectful approach to harvesting game and making every effort to ensure a quick,
humane death without unnecessary suffering for the particular animal being pursued.
Hunting ethics are not the same for every person. They are shaped by ethical teachings from mentors and peers,
as well as an individual’s own experiences, culture, basic upbringing, and what motivates them to hunt. An individual’s hunting ethic is manifested by their actions before, during, and after a hunt. For example, honing skills
in marksmanship and knowing one’s maximum effective range are ethical preparations before the hunt. Properly
caring for the meat in the field and packing it out are examples of ethical approaches after the animal has been harvested (and also the law in most states and provinces). Following up and exhausting all possibilities to verify if an
animal has been hit and possibly wounded is an ethical choice. Choosing to hunt fair chase is also a choice among a
number of ethical decisions a hunter must make."


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Interesting read. There is no doubt technology has had an affect on take.

NM is in the middle of this conversation now. NMDGF is proposing (almost guaranteed to be enacted) eliminating scopes on ML’s. It’s comical listening to the arguments for and against in NM. I have to laugh when the archers that are utilizing laser range finders, sliders, mechanical broad heads, carbon arrows, etc try to make the argument that ML hunts were meant to be “primitive”.

Same with the rifle hunters utilizing the same laser range finder, turrets, ballistic apps etc.

The technology, ethics conversation is a slippery slope for all of us.

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Originally Posted by SLM
Interesting read. There is no doubt technology has had an affect on take.

NM is in the middle of this conversation now. NMDGF is proposing (almost guaranteed to be enacted) eliminating scopes on ML’s. It’s comical listening to the arguments for and against in NM. I have to laugh when the archers that are utilizing laser range finders, sliders, mechanical broad heads, carbon arrows, etc try to make the argument that ML hunts were meant to be “primitive”.

Same with the rifle hunters utilizing the same laser range finder, turrets, ballistic apps etc.

The technology, ethics conversation is a slippery slope for all of us.


When make the weapons primitive and more difficult to shoot accurately aren't they increasing the amount of wounded game that is lost to waste



I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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