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Let's see, the arguments against RDS on a carry pistol that I am aware of are.....
1: RDS is slower
2: Pistols with RDS are harder to conceal
3: A lack of affordable or compatible holsters
4: Dust/fog/rain
5: Unreliability of electronics
I resisted the RDS for a long time, waiting for reliability history to shake out. At the same time, my eyes have aged. The two curves intersecting, I gave it a serious try on a serious carry pistol, and found that my speed and accuracy improved almost immediately. Argument #1 debunked. Next, I went searching for a compatible holster that would allow effective concealment, and found plenty available at reasonable cost. Arguments #2 and #3 debunked.
I dismiss #4 because we've all managed to avoid and/or work around the same issues with optics on long guns. #5 remains a question for certain models but not so much for others.
I'm transitioning to optics on everything that is designed to accept them effectively. I think if you take your role as a defender of loved ones seriously, you should be grabbing every advantage you can. You guys who are determined to remain in the past are on your own. For an average shooter, with poor or declining eyesight, it will probably help.. That would describe me, but I notice that a huge percentage of top shooters with young eyes are using red dots. The sign of the times for sure. A lot of younger people don't know how to use iron sights.. I'm not against using a red dot sight. They are cool, but just an extra un needed gadget that I don't need on a cc yet.. When my eyes go to schidt, that may change. Thankfully I can still see the irons on pistols with my right eye pretty well. That bolded part is a lame argument. I doubt that you will find a single top competitor who doesn't know how to use iron sights.
Lunatic fringe....we all know you're out there.
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Joined: May 2002
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Campfire Outfitter
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My initial resistance was that I was slower in acquiring the dot. I've improved. And switching from a Trijicon RMR to a Leupold Delta Point Pro has helped, too.
Another issue is that red dots really show your shake. Of course, you shake just as much without a red dot. But it's not as noticable with irons as it is with an RDS. The upside is that it does a good job showing you things you need to work on. I suspect that a lot of guys are convinced that is more of a downside, and would rather be unaware of those things.
Lunatic fringe....we all know you're out there.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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If someone staunchly objects, did they forget that co-witnessed irons are available?
🦫🤷🏽♀️
Curiosity Killed the Cat & The Prairie Dog
“Molon Labe”
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A lot of younger people don't know how to use iron sights I doubt that you will find a single top competitor who doesn't know how to use iron sights. Lots of new pistol owners who have damn little shooting time. And lots of forum geniuses who can't deal with real life.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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A lot of younger people don't know how to use iron sights I doubt that you will find a single top competitor who doesn't know how to use iron sights. Lots of new pistol owners who have damn little shooting time. And lots of forum geniuses who can't deal with real life. New shooter that can't aquire their sights will struggle with a RDS. Hopefully you will soon be able to cope
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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I want to thank Waders for asking this question. ...brown-nosing teacher's pet..... I'm gonna steal your new girlfriend. She's good about keeping it low profile, can still work to iron things out, and lights up just right. I'm not real experienced in her world but I think she and I could make it work.
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Joined: May 2002
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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A lot of younger people don't know how to use iron sights I doubt that you will find a single top competitor who doesn't know how to use iron sights. Lots of new pistol owners who have damn little shooting time. And lots of forum geniuses who can't deal with real life. And that relates to my post, how?
Lunatic fringe....we all know you're out there.
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Joined: May 2002
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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I want to thank Waders for asking this question. ...brown-nosing teacher's pet..... I'm gonna steal your new girlfriend. She's good about keeping it low profile, can still work to iron things out, and lights up just right. I'm not real experienced in her world but I think she and I could make it work. Clever! 
Lunatic fringe....we all know you're out there.
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Joined: Jan 2018
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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I want to thank Waders for asking this question. ...brown-nosing teacher's pet..... I'm gonna steal your new girlfriend. She's good about keeping it low profile, can still work to iron things out, and lights up just right. I'm not real experienced in her world but I think she and I could make it work. LMAO 🦫
Curiosity Killed the Cat & The Prairie Dog
“Molon Labe”
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Joined: Nov 2002
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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This issue gets brought up in other threads, and I don't want to add to the clutter.
Some say that having an "electronic" sight on their EDC pistol is an unacceptable/unnecessary risk. Yet, these same folks willingly, without objection, gamble their lives on the reliability of electronics in every other aspect of their existence--vehicles, planes, anything medical, microwaves, elevators, digital reloading scales, computers, phones, GPS's. The list of examples is infinite.
BUT...the mere mention of a red dot sight on a pistol has them freaking out. Why?
I made the switch to an RDS on my EDC pistols (Glocks and Sigs) and haven't looked back. I'm both faster and more accurate. My near-vision issues are now non-issues thanks to dot sights. Where I work, an indoor gunfight could easily involve distances of 50+ feet, and a red dot greatly improves my accuracy.
In my immediate circle of friends who shoot with dots, nobody has had one fail. I agree that the data sample is too small to make that fact statistically relevant, but neither do I see the interweb filled with reports of failures from reputable companies. Sig Romeo's sucked for a time, and Vortex low end stuff is reputably unreliable, but the current offerings from Trijicon, Holosun, Leupold, etc. are holding up well. In my own experience, I've had more iron sights fail than dots--I had a Glock front sight fall off (and I'm far from alone in that experience), and I've had a Sig rear sight fall off--two different times.
Regardless, having a red dot does not preclude you from having irons zeroed and ready to go. I've got irons on my guns.
So, what makes a red dot sight so unacceptable to you? (I anticipate some spirited discussion, but if we can maintain civility, it may prove more useful.) It seems like the guys that are using them are the older guys with eyesight issues. I love them on my 22lr for pin shoots, but for the bigger centerfire pistols, don't need them. Not needed yet, as iron sights still work just fine for my eyes and needs. Getting on target quick is not a problem. A deficit with the red dot is sometimes finding the dot may take longer, which may require more practice to know exactly how to acquire it. That's a deficit for someone like me, where I don't shoot pistols much. I went for 11 months this last year without shooting any pistols. I see a lot of guys running them for CC. That is up to them, just learn to be proficient. That means at any range, not just 3 to 7 yards. I do agree with some here, that I can get on target and find the front sight quicker than acquiring the red dot. YMMV.. And yes, I have experimented recently with a new red dot on a pistol vs a new 9mm pistol I just bought. Better 40 yard times with the 9 and conventional sights. You're still retarded. Go to any police academy and see what the recruits are carrying, and they're not old guys with eyesight problems. Every person I know who carries a pistol for work (where allowed) or CCW is using a red dot with the exception of my 84 year old dad.
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They make hitting target easier. As long as unit is rugged with good track record and good adjustments (for intensity with changing light conditions, long na nattery life,.....) I do not have any objections.
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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They make hitting target easier. As long as unit is rugged with good track record and good adjustments (for intensity with changing light conditions, long na nattery life,.....) I do not have any objections. Well as long as Cardenas approves. Lol
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Campfire Regular
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This issue gets brought up in other threads, and I don't want to add to the clutter.
Some say that having an "electronic" sight on their EDC pistol is an unacceptable/unnecessary risk. Yet, these same folks willingly, without objection, gamble their lives on the reliability of electronics in every other aspect of their existence--vehicles, planes, anything medical, microwaves, elevators, digital reloading scales, computers, phones, GPS's. The list of examples is infinite.
BUT...the mere mention of a red dot sight on a pistol has them freaking out. Why?
I made the switch to an RDS on my EDC pistols (Glocks and Sigs) and haven't looked back. I'm both faster and more accurate. My near-vision issues are now non-issues thanks to dot sights. Where I work, an indoor gunfight could easily involve distances of 50+ feet, and a red dot greatly improves my accuracy.
In my immediate circle of friends who shoot with dots, nobody has had one fail. I agree that the data sample is too small to make that fact statistically relevant, but neither do I see the interweb filled with reports of failures from reputable companies. Sig Romeo's sucked for a time, and Vortex low end stuff is reputably unreliable, but the current offerings from Trijicon, Holosun, Leupold, etc. are holding up well. In my own experience, I've had more iron sights fail than dots--I had a Glock front sight fall off (and I'm far from alone in that experience), and I've had a Sig rear sight fall off--two different times.
Regardless, having a red dot does not preclude you from having irons zeroed and ready to go. I've got irons on my guns.
So, what makes a red dot sight so unacceptable to you? (I anticipate some spirited discussion, but if we can maintain civility, it may prove more useful.) It seems like the guys that are using them are the older guys with eyesight issues. I love them on my 22lr for pin shoots, but for the bigger centerfire pistols, don't need them. Not needed yet, as iron sights still work just fine for my eyes and needs. Getting on target quick is not a problem. A deficit with the red dot is sometimes finding the dot may take longer, which may require more practice to know exactly how to acquire it. That's a deficit for someone like me, where I don't shoot pistols much. I went for 11 months this last year without shooting any pistols. I see a lot of guys running them for CC. That is up to them, just learn to be proficient. That means at any range, not just 3 to 7 yards. I do agree with some here, that I can get on target and find the front sight quicker than acquiring the red dot. YMMV.. And yes, I have experimented recently with a new red dot on a pistol vs a new 9mm pistol I just bought. Better 40 yard times with the 9 and conventional sights. You're still retarded. Go to any police academy and see what the recruits are carrying, and they're not old guys with eyesight problems. Every person I know who carries a pistol for work (where allowed) or CCW is using a red dot with the exception of my 84 year old dad. Father knows best
For those without thumbs, it's s Garden fookin Island, not Hawaii
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Campfire Outfitter
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Change is...hard. Ed McGivern didn't need no goldurn red dots for fast and fancy shooting. The apogee of combat shooting was achieved at Gunsite in 1984!
YMMV
mike r
Don't wish it were easier
Wish you were better
Stab them in the taint, you can't put a tourniquet on that.
Craig Douglas ECQC
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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We tried, but it's kinda hard to put a red dot on .38spl snubbie.
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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All my dots are RMRs. I’ve put a lot of rounds down range with open sights, but am quicker with more hits faster with a red dot. I didn’t think this would be the case but bought two pistols from the company out of Plano that makes Glock copies (can’t remember name). They mill their slides where sights and dots cowitness. One was milled for RMR and the other was not. Side by side with identical pistols both myself and my dad were noticeably faster with the RMR.
Mine is set up to cowitness so no big deal if it breaks. In that case I have iron sights.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 30,935 Likes: 1 |
All my dots are RMRs. I’ve put a lot of rounds down range with open sights, but am quicker with more hits faster with a red dot. I didn’t think this would be the case but bought two pistols from the company out of Plano that makes Glock copies (can’t remember name). They mill their slides where sights and dots cowitness. One was milled for RMR and the other was not. Side by side with identical pistols both myself and my dad were noticeably faster with the RMR.
Mine is set up to cowitness so no big deal if it breaks. In that case I have iron sights. Exactly those that refuse to try one don't realize the fact that RDS are superior. In every way Case closed
Last edited by jwp475; 09/03/22.
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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Campfire Outfitter
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Exactly those that refuse to try one don't realize the fact that RDS are superior. In every way
Case closed Case closed, uhhh how many decades of experience with them do you have?
Swifty
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Exactly those that refuse to try one don't realize the fact that RDS are superior. In every way
Case closed Case closed, uhhh how many decades of experience with them do you have? You gonna wait decades to catch up?
Lunatic fringe....we all know you're out there.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Exactly those that refuse to try one don't realize the fact that RDS are superior. In every way
Case closed Case closed, uhhh how many decades of experience with them do you have? You gonna wait decades to catch up? If it takes a personal decades to realize RDS are better then he is rather dim witted
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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