Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunting Rifles switching steel epoxy... to?

Gents,

I know some folks have had issues with Miles Gilbert epoxy in the past... mainly saying it didn't cure as hard as other brands. Until now, my luck had always been good with MG. (5-6 rifles an no issues.) Was re-bedding the tang area of another rifle over the weekend (was never 100% happy with how it turned out the first time... was perfectly functional but had a couple bubbles... and finally got back around to it) and the epoxy just refused to totally set. I knew something was up when the cup of leftover epoxy I use to gauge drying time was still soft on top 12 hours later. Let it sit for 24, no change. 48 hours later it was still "almost done" with the ability to press your finger nail in. It's hot enough outside that I think if it was ever going to finish, it would have by now. Bummer.

The silverlining is that because it never truly dried, I was able to peel it out with my fingernail and it came up in big strips (sort of like almost hardened bubble gum)... so no permanent mess. The question now is what to switch to... I have JB Weld but I'm not sure if it can be dyed? I've never used Marine-Tex but everyone seems to like it? (Can it be dyed also?) A putty seems more convenient than the traditional epoxy, but the Devcon is also significantly more expensive than even the Marine-Tex. Recommendations?

Thanks y'all.

Steel bed is my favorite, but I have used JB many times and it works very well.

The Brownell's kit?

I’m not trying to be critical or suggest you shouldn’t switch, but if it didn’t harden more and adhere that is a strong sign that, regardless of your previous 5/6 positive experiences, this time you may have any combination of the following:

- not had accurate/precise amounts of resin and hardner
- possibly not mixed well/long enough
- the previous surface was contaminated/not bare wood, etc.

What did you use for release agent?

It’s not uncommon for fishing rod builders to run into the exact problem you described when making batches of finish and epoxy, as with those the accuracy/precision needed is greater.

Yes Brownells Steelbed kit. Easy 50/50 mix ratio and gets very hard with ultra low shrinkage. I have probably bedded 30 plus rifles with the stuff and every one came out great. For the money though you cannot beat JB. YMMV

Marine-Tex Grey and Devcon 10110 are both awesome, but can't really be dyed. JB Weld (not JB Quick) works decent for the price. AcraGlass Gel works fairly well, and can be dyed.

Hines - no offense taken. Totally fair observations/questions.

The previous surface not be properly prepped (it was -- at least the same way I've always done it) would make a lot more sense if the leftover epoxy had hardened but not the epoxy applied to the right. In the past I've found that MG is pretty forgiving in terms of ratio. It's just a simple 50/50 and I use the little measuring deal that comes with it. So it could be an imprecision there, but seems unlikely. I'm paranoid about it not mixing properly, so I go over the time they recommend. But if I had to guess one of the three options you proposed, that would seem the most likely. But this had been bugging the hell out of me, so I decided to run a little experiment. I took ingredients from the same kit that didn't set right in the rifle and set up three samples: (1) just epoxy and hardener, no dye (2) epoxy, hardener, and the same amount of dye I used over the weekend; (3) epoxy, hardener, and the smallest bit of dye I could apply with it actually being there (it wasn't as dark as I intended, but clearly colored). #1 and #3 hardened as I would have expected in 8 hours. #2 is still "gummy" like what didn't set in the rifle. This leads me to think I either used too much dye and it screwed up the ratio in the rifle itself or there's just something not good with the dye and I used so little in #3 it still set. I'm not a chemist, though, so not sure what ingredients in the dye would affect the bonding/reaction?

Multiple rifles with JB Weld. Zero issues. And Yes, it can be dyed...

I use Devcon plastic steel sold in hw stores.

Also picked up some JB marine Weld.

Looks a lot like marinetex

Nice experiment to isolate the most likely independent variable, which sounds like the overuse of dye.

I’ve had experience with bedding jobs and rod building. Although not exactly the same, it’s similar in that you are using resins and hardners. With rod finish it always takes a solid two minutes of very vigorous/thorough stirring before the “haze” goes away and it’s truly ready.

For most resin/hardner mixing I can think of, my 2 cents is:

- make LARGER batches than necessary BECAUSE if you’re off with measuring, any lack of accuracy/precision will be less significant with the larger batch
- use the least amount of dye necessary
- mix very well over an adequate amount of time
- use a tried and true release agent

The release agent that comes with the MG kit has always allowed the barreled action to pop free pretty easily. So fingers crossed that doesn't change this time! (I'm giving the MG epoxy another go with minimal dye this time. Tomorrow AM we'll know if the dye was the issue.)

Came out fine this AM. Must have been the dye quantity. A little extra work but learned something worthwhile.

Glad to hear your second effort turned out well.

I use epoxy all the time for various projects from building arrows, to finishing wood, to structural bonding. Not that this was your issue, but, for mixing epoxy, the rule of thumb I follow is: Mix it until you are absolutely sure it is fully mixed, then mix it that amount, again.

That's similar to what I do. The kit says stir for two minutes, I usually just do it for five.

FWIW I have used acraglass in the past, but recently switched to Pro Bed 2000 https://www.probed2000.com/ since it is in stock. Comes in brown or black, haven't tried tinting it yet.

Y'all should invest in a quality food scale, even expensive is relatively cheap. Strip of tinfoil for laying out each half and then simply smear them together and mix uniformly.

Also, small batches increase your chances of getting the ratio wrong, the reason I use a scale.

At work, I mix epoxies several times a day, from 40 grams up to 250 grams at a time. Our epoxies have 100:27, 100:44, 100:58 mix ratios, although we have several that are a 1:1 ratio.

I have used Devcon, Metal Set and AcraGlass Gel with good results, nothing like I see from some of y'all, but decent enough for a factory hunting rifle.