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35 Whelen question for Phil Shoemaker #1760069 10/25/07
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gerry35 Offline OP
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I tried this on the a Ask the Gunwriters forum a few days ago but it is so busy there that it dissapeared before you could see it. I would like to know how you would rate the 35 Whelen for hunting coastal grizzlies in the fall along the salmon spawning creeks? I will always have a Whelen but I have been wanting a 358 Norma as well mostly for grizzly. Would a 250 gr bullet travelling 250 fps faster than the Whelen be that much better? Also will the heavyweights like the 310 gr Woodleigh or 280 gr Swift be better than say a 250 gr Nosler in the Whelen? If there is not much difference in the killing power between the two cartridges then I will give up on the 358 Norma.


Gerry.
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Re: 35 Whelen question for Phil Shoemaker [Re: gerry35] #1760630 10/26/07
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I am not Phill or a gun writer, but I have a lot of experience with the 35whelen on large animals. My whelen will run a 250FXB between 2400 and 2680fps depending on the charge. The only differance I could detect is ranging ability, the faster load has an extended PBR. This should not be an issue with your proposed use. On game performance at 2400fps or 2600+ is equally awesome. The norma comes , normally comes in a heavier, longer rifle, the belted short mag does not load as slick. The whelen loads slick like a 375HH, does not need a long barrel to perform and with the 250 barnes X, 225gr are only available now, bullet weight is not compromised at impact. All the bullet has to do is penetrate and stay together, a g bear or any other animal is skin bone and muscle, the whelen will pentrate and smash bone. Once I shot a large moose at 325m, 250x at 2450fps, smashed large bones major tissue damage, did not recover bullet. Your grizz will not no the diffearance between the two, I say this after 30+ head of big, big game.

Re: 35 Whelen question for Phil Shoemaker [Re: zxc] #1760872 10/26/07
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A 35 Whelen with a 310 gr. Woodleigh is all you will ever need for about anything...I use the 300 gr. .338 Woodleigh and have killed Cape Buffalo with it...It kills bison quickly.

Re: 35 Whelen question for Phil Shoemaker [Re: atkinsonhunting] #1761008 10/26/07
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Guess I don't need to reply as Ray and Furprick pretty well summed it up.

The 35 Whelen with the 250 Partitions is a great cartridge for big bears anywhere. If your rifle shoots them well the 280 Swifts or 310 Woodleighs might be a bit better.

I prefer the Whelen over the Norma simply because of commonly avaliable brass and a greater magazine capacity. On the biggest bears I have never been able to tell that an extra 100 or 200 fps made any difference.


Phil Shoemaker
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Anyone who claims the 30-06 is not effective has either not used one, or else is unwittingly commenting on their marksmanship.
Re: 35 Whelen question for Phil Shoemaker [Re: 458Win] #1761702 10/26/07
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Furprick, Ray and Phil thank you for answering my question. I think I can let go of the 358 Norma now. From what the 3 of you and other knowledgeable riflemen have also said I guess there isn't much difference between the 338 win, 35 whelen, 358 norma at the close ranges bears are usually shot. My whelen holds 6 rounds with one up the spout which is a comfort in the thick brush. Now I just have to draw another tag.


Gerry.
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Re: 35 Whelen question for Phil Shoemaker [Re: gerry35] #1761737 10/26/07
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kk alaska Offline
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I have used the 250 Std Speer on big bodied Bull Moose 3 and have yet 2 recover a bullet 2450 FPS. Used the Std 250 Speer on a 6' Black Bear this Fall with a 35 Whln. Imp. 2580 FPS. Penetrated neck & out heart. Would not be concerned using either rifle with either the Nosler Part 250 or Speer GS older style or older 250 Speer Std. on big bear. Bullet placement is everything.


kk alaska

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Re: 35 Whelen question for Phil Shoemaker [Re: kk alaska] #1762466 10/27/07
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gerrygoat, on the premise that a person can not have too many guns or experiences, for your situation other 06 based mediums would be fun to experiment with. I am going 9.3mm in a sako, i know I won't notice much differance than the whelen, if any, but it keeps my interest level up. Over the years i have basically gone away from " magnum " cartridges. I find the mediums are excellant at putting game down and on the deer sized game it is hard to beat a 6.5 or 270.

Re: 35 Whelen question for Phil Shoemaker [Re: zxc] #1763829 10/28/07
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Furprick, I like the the same class of cartridges as you do. The 9.3's interest me as well I have suggested the 9.3x62 to my main hunting buddy but so far he hasn't bitten on it. I too am a big 6.5mm fan as well. Out of curiosity how is it finding 9.3x66 ammo and brass?


Gerry.
Re: 35 Whelen question for Phil Shoemaker [Re: gerry35] #1764512 10/28/07
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The canadian importer has all you want, Stoeger (sp) I am getting everything through Ominica sports in vanderhoof, good people to deal with, brass is $32/20 Sako headstamped ready to load, bullets are not an issue and the factory load uses VV550 which is available. Dies are around $160-170. As well I like the 6.5x55. Had the whelen a long time looking for a good quality rifle in S/S I think the Sako is that rife. Probably my last gun purchase, i will keep the 6.5, the 3006 and the 9.3, will sell the whelen and a 375HH in a rem 700C.

Re: 35 Whelen question for Phil Shoemaker [Re: zxc] #1768135 10/30/07
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To me the reason to go to the 358 Norma is to push the 270 gr Northforks or 280 gr A-frames 2500-2600 fps. To me that's even steven with the 375 H&H regarding same sd's at the same velocity.

I can't see going heavier than 250 grs in the whelen as "premium" bullets offer plenty of penetration, and I wouldn't want to be launching them at 2200-2300 fps. If a 250 gr X, northfork or a-frame at 2400-2500 fps doesn't do the trick, it wasn't the bullets fault.


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Bravo

Re: 35 Whelen question for Phil Shoemaker [Re: 458 Lott] #1768693 10/30/07
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The only reason to go to the 358 Norma


Is because you want a 358 Norma. It is a great round for Alaska.


Phil Shoemaker
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Anyone who claims the 30-06 is not effective has either not used one, or else is unwittingly commenting on their marksmanship.
Re: 35 Whelen question for Phil Shoemaker [Re: gerry35] #1768861 10/30/07
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Originally Posted by gerrygoat
how you would rate the 35 Whelen for hunting coastal grizzlies in the fall


As the guy said, I ain't Phil, but your question can be looked at in a couple of ways. The first is simply straitforward as asked. Nothing in my experience with my Whelen (my primary hunting rifle)causes me to hesitate about using it for the coastal bears, I prefer Hornady 250 gr rn bullets, but that's just because they've always worked well for me.

The other way to look at your question is "Is the Norma a better bear stopper than a Whelen?" The answer to that is also NO. Neither is a bear stopping caliber, so the same precision of bullet placement from each would be required to drop a bear, any bear, in its tracks.

Re: 35 Whelen question for Phil Shoemaker [Re: RupertBear] #1806061 11/17/07
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I have not shot any grizzly with my Whelen, but I have shot a couple of black bears and one moose (at 410 yds). I prefer the 225 gr. bullet for the Whelen for general use, but would go with the 250 for brown/griz if it were me. My handloads can usually get a easy 2500 fps with most any 250 gr. bullet, which is plenty, in my experience.

Re: 35 Whelen question for Phil Shoemaker [Re: 458 Lott] #1810086 11/19/07
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I love the 9.3x62 round, it's just a 375 H&H because it's on steriods! It holds a weeks worth of ammo, works in a std. length action and I can get an easy 2550 FPS with a 286 Nosler and near 2400 FPS with a 320 gr. Woodleigh...I feel like it really outperforms the Whelen, but wouldn't swear to it, you get a lot of pre determined ideas when you use any caliber successufully over a period of time and I have had such good luck with the 9.3x62 that I may be a bit prejudice on the subject...

Re: 35 Whelen question for Phil Shoemaker [Re: atkinsonhunting] #1812211 11/20/07
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What twist rate is generally recommend for the Whelen?


Re: 35 Whelen question for Phil Shoemaker [Re: leomort] #1812330 11/20/07
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1-12.


Re: 35 Whelen question for Phil Shoemaker [Re: aheider] #1812936 11/20/07
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Either 1-12 or 1-14. A 1-14 will stabalize evertything 250 gr and under, and is a bit friendlier for cast bullets. It'll also stabalize the lyman 3589 ~280 gr cast bullet just fine.

Remington went with a 1-16 twist that is marginal for 250 gr bullets.

My 35 whelen acklety (now a 350 Rigby) was/is 1-14, my 350 rem mag is 1-12, both will put 3 shots well under 1"


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Re: 35 Whelen question for Phil Shoemaker [Re: 458 Lott] #1813056 11/20/07
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Thanks, aheider and 458Lott

Re: 35 Whelen question for Phil Shoemaker [Re: 458 Lott] #2003320 02/08/08
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2-8-08

Glad to have found this thread. I was trying to decide what caliber would find a home in my newly acquired left hand 98 Mauser action. My experience with a steel BLR in 358W has been great with whitetails, but I wanted a little more for elk and moose. Performance of those 250 Speers in the BLR on a Texas Heart Shot convinced me that 35's are real performers. Did not recover the slug.

It came down to a 35 Whelen or a 9.3X6...and after reading this thread it still is a 35 Whelen or 9.3X62!! As a Keith fan I love those "heavy for caliber" bullets but am no fan of magnum level recoil. (I shoot 2-3/4" turkey loads too.) So either of these rifle rounds fit the bill nicely. The Whelen has better sectional density at comparable bullet weights, but I am not so sure it is really a good predictor of penetration. Momentum and expansion seem more realistic indicators.

Can anyone give me one overriding reason to choose the 9.3? Performance-wise, I doubt it, but give it a try.

I can always apply my sure-fire formula in the end. I l have the same fondness for the 6.5's others have expressed here and I chose the 6.5 X 64 Brenneke (6.5X270) over the 6.5X55 or 6.5/06 because the performance is close/identical respectively, and it is different enough that no one else at the range has one.

Looks like the only argument that will defeat the "uniqueness" test is the cheap '06 brass and usability of relatively inexpensive std. Speer 250's.

It's still a dead heat in my mind.

Roger

Re: 35 Whelen question for Phil Shoemaker [Re: Roger Beach] #2006825 02/10/08
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If the majority of your hunting is deer sized game i would chose the 35W , as it is very flexible with many bullet choices, and will do for the largest animals. If moose/ elk in g-bear country the 9.3 would get the nod. in reality you would not find much differance between the two. As stated earlier in this topic I was going to sell my whelen, changed my mind and sold the 375 and the 6.5 swede, will keep 3006 wheln and have a 9.3x66sako on the way.

Re: 35 Whelen question for Phil Shoemaker [Re: 458Win] #2007718 02/10/08
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Originally Posted by 458Win
The only reason to go to the 358 Norma


Is because you want a 358 Norma.


A perfectly valid reason, no doubt.

I am looking at a 375 Ruger and hoping to use 260 grain partitions at 2600 fps.

BMT


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Re: 35 Whelen question for Phil Shoemaker [Re: BMT] #2010693 02/11/08
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Gotta love those 35s. Currently I only have a 358 win in a short light package.

For you 35 lovers here is a good link:

http://www.35cal.com/articles.html

I pondered making a 358 Norma at one point but ended up making a 375 Taylor instead. A 260 Accubond at 2750 mashes the elk flat. I know the 375 Ruger can surpass the Taylor, sort of like the 358 norma over the 35 whelen but it may not be necessary for most purposes. Something can be said for a bit less recoil.

Speaking of recoil: Phil, I still grin when I think of you at the range shooting that 505 Gibbs. You asked your friend, "did you see the muzzle flash?". After a second shot and your friend still couldn't see the flash, that you realized it was your eyes being distorted by the extreme recoil!

Re: 35 Whelen question for Phil Shoemaker [Re: Azshooter] #2012976 02/12/08
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Love the .35's myself and just to screw with your head, have you considered the .350 Remington Magnum. Same ballistics as the .35 Whelen, out of a 20" barrel!


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Re: 35 Whelen question for Phil Shoemaker [Re: BALDERDASH] #2019663 02/15/08
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One nice advantage of the 35's is the ability to use 357 pistol bullets- either reloaded or from a cartridge adapter. I am setting up a stainless Ruger No 1 in 35 Whelen for just this purpose.


Phil Shoemaker
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www.grizzlyskinsofalaska.com

Anyone who claims the 30-06 is not effective has either not used one, or else is unwittingly commenting on their marksmanship.
Re: 35 Whelen question for Phil Shoemaker [Re: 458Win] #2019948 02/15/08
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Originally Posted by 458Win
One nice advantage of the 35's is the ability to use 357 pistol bullets- either reloaded or from a cartridge adapter. I am setting up a stainless Ruger No 1 in 35 Whelen for just this purpose.


Wow:

A stainless Ruger #1 set up just to shoot pistol bullets from the 35 Whelen case.

You Sir, have earned a PhD. in Rifle-Loony with that.

My great and total admiration is yours.

I am humbled.

BMT

Last edited by BMT; 02/15/08.

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Re: 35 Whelen question for Phil Shoemaker [Re: BMT] #2020023 02/15/08
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I guess I do have to plead guilty but, in my defense, I also plan on using it with full power loads as well. The rifle is also one that my son has plans for as he also inherited a full dose of the rifle loony gene. He is a diehard 35 Whelen fan and calls the 9.3x62's "euro-trash"


Phil Shoemaker
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Anyone who claims the 30-06 is not effective has either not used one, or else is unwittingly commenting on their marksmanship.
Re: 35 Whelen question for Phil Shoemaker [Re: 458Win] #2020081 02/15/08
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Still and all,

I am humbled . . . . .grin

BMT


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Re: 35 Whelen question for Phil Shoemaker [Re: BMT] #2020312 02/15/08
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I tryed the pistol bullet thing but didn't like it as it is limiting. I do not want to be caught with a mag full of 150gr nosler IPSC bullets for grouse and scare up a bedded moose, deer, bear or 'billy. So i settled on 200gr hornaday SP knock any of the afore mentioned upside down at the ranges they wood be encountered

Re: 35 Whelen question for Phil Shoemaker [Re: 458Win] #2020690 02/15/08
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Originally Posted by 458Win
I guess I do have to plead guilty but, in my defense, I also plan on using it with full power loads as well. The rifle is also one that my son has plans for as he also inherited a full dose of the rifle loony gene. He is a diehard 35 Whelen fan and calls the 9.3x62's "euro-trash"


Phil,
"Euro-trash" indeed. I'm also a lover of 35's (358Win and 350RemMag currently) but I now really wonder whether the Whelen/Howe combination knew of the 9x63 when they decided to make their Nth American 375H&H substitute ... the 35Whelen.
Cheers...
Con

Re: 35 Whelen question for Phil Shoemaker [Re: Con] #2021259 02/16/08
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9.3X62 Euro-trash!? What a croc! The only thing a 35 Whelen is good for is making into a 358STA! ;-)


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Re: 35 Whelen question for Phil Shoemaker [Re: 458Win] #2022048 02/16/08
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Phil,

Next time you talk to Taj tell him that the .35 Whelen is merely a belated (and rather lightweight) American imitation of a time-proven European design, which is precisely why it didn't become a factory round for 3/4 of a century after the 9.3x62 was being chambered.


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Re: 35 Whelen question for Phil Shoemaker [Re: Mule Deer] #2022292 02/16/08
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Booyah! What he said!


"To study without a book is to sail an uncharted sea, While to study only from books is not to go to sea at all" Sir William Osler
Re: 35 Whelen question for Phil Shoemaker [Re: stephenwhite] #2023326 02/17/08
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John, Since I am having my third 9.3x62 built I just told Taj I was having a 36 Whelen built. I also threatened to have the No 1 re-bored to 9.3.


Phil Shoemaker
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Anyone who claims the 30-06 is not effective has either not used one, or else is unwittingly commenting on their marksmanship.
Re: 35 Whelen question for Phil Shoemaker [Re: 458Win] #2023357 02/17/08
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Actually, I was just hoping for a report on his facial expression when you forwarded my message.


“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
Re: 35 Whelen question for Phil Shoemaker [Re: Mule Deer] #2023455 02/17/08
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I can't see a reason to do a .35 Whelen when you can do a 9.3x62. IF the twist was right and you had a lot of 280 grain bullets available for the Whelen, that would be another story. Even if you put in a heavy bullet twist, you still only have a couple of heavyweights to choose from. The 286-300's make the 9.3 more flexible. If you want to shoot 250-grain bullets it makes more sense to use a .338-06 IMO.

Re: 35 Whelen question for Phil Shoemaker [Re: jstevens] #2023512 02/17/08
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Hmmmmm.... this post has me thinking about a Remmy pump gun in 9.3X62.


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Re: 35 Whelen question for Phil Shoemaker [Re: safariman] #2024612 02/17/08
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I have been thinking that way myself for a few months.


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Re: 35 Whelen question for Phil Shoemaker [Re: Mule Deer] #2024781 02/17/08
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CZ550 "American" chambers 9.3x62mm... now don't get me wrong cuz I wouldn't agree with the "Euro-trash" characterization (though it made me smile) but "American"??? C'mon. 338 Win Mag is American. .35 Whelen is American.

I just didn't get that when I saw it.

I think that I may have to scrounge up a little change and grab up a Springfield '03A3 action and build a Whelen.

Is 9.3x62 or Whelen ammo more readily available in Alaska? Seems to me one could get hurt throwing metrics around when asking for ammo at some backcountry supply store...


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Re: 35 Whelen question for Phil Shoemaker [Re: efw] #2024830 02/17/08
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Both the Whelen and the 9.3 "Euro-trash" rounds are avaliable in Anchorage and Fairbanks. I don't know about the SE or Kodiak but most of us rifle loonies stock up anyway when we find ammo and supplies.

A 35 Whelen on an 03 Spfld is classic.


Phil Shoemaker
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Anyone who claims the 30-06 is not effective has either not used one, or else is unwittingly commenting on their marksmanship.
Re: 35 Whelen question for Phil Shoemaker [Re: 458Win] #2024839 02/17/08
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I always wanted a Whelen until I got my first 9.3X62.

Now, every time I see a rifle I like, I always wonder what it would be like in a 9.3X62!

grin


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Re: 35 Whelen question for Phil Shoemaker [Re: jstevens] #2026758 02/18/08
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For me personally, I'd want a 9.3x57.

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The 35 Whelen is terrific but the best .35 caliber had to be the 35 Newton.


I'm becoming more tolerant of intolerant people.
Re: 35 Whelen question for Phil Shoemaker [Re: Rusty-Gunn] #2027182 02/18/08
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Originally Posted by Rusty-Gunn
For me personally, I'd want a 9.3x57.


Rusty-

You need to check out the hunting rifles section at the Sacro Inc web site!! They have Husqvarna '96s & '98s in 9.3x57 for a song ($200-$300)right now. They even have barreled actions. I've been going there and just looking at the pictures lately.

I know, I'm a little obsessive. But these things a beautiful!

The thing that lost me on that caliber was cost of dies and brass. If I were to buy one of those lovely hunting tools I'd do the '98 and have it rebored to 62mm, personally.

So many rifles, so little time... and money...


Don't you ever wonder why
In spite of all that's wrong here
There's still so much that goes so right
And beauty abounds?

The thunder rolls and the baby sighs
And the rain comes down
Don't you wanta thank someone for this?
-Andrew Peterson
Re: 35 Whelen question for Phil Shoemaker [Re: efw] #2028995 02/19/08
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EFWakeman... I've seen them in Shotgun New's magazine. Problem right now is my town only has one gun dealer, who charges an outragious amount. That low price will easily double by the time I have him get one.

Re: 35 Whelen question for Phil Shoemaker [Re: 458Win] #2029759 02/19/08
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Originally Posted by 458Win
A 35 Whelen on an 03 Spfld is classic.


God Love you Phil.

BMT

Last edited by BMT; 02/19/08.

"The Church can and should help modern society by tirelessly insisting that the work of women in the home be recognized and respected by all in its irreplaceable value." Apostolic Exhortation On The Family, Pope John Paul II
Re: 35 Whelen question for Phil Shoemaker [Re: pinotguy] #2029844 02/19/08
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Thanks for sharing guys!
There are two Whelens in my safe; damnfine pig guns.

My buddy just bought the Remmy auto. Shot a hog last week with it 4 times. He's 53 and shoots it like a kid!

I'd like a 9.3, but it is SO easy to get casting components for the 35's and using oversize GC's is a pain. (Ever make 44 GC's work on a 416 or 35 GC's on a 338?).

The REAL classic 35 for me would be the 35 G & H! Anyone ever had the itch?



Re: 35 Whelen question for Phil Shoemaker [Re: HawkI] #2030565 02/20/08
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The real classic .35 to me would be the .350 Rigby. Somehow I talked myself down though, and so only have a .35 Remington, two .358 Winchesters and a .358 Norma.


“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
Re: 35 Whelen question for Phil Shoemaker [Re: Mule Deer] #2030595 02/20/08
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John, was just fondling an original pre-war 350 Rigby yesterday and they certainly define "classic" - but the best old Spfld custom sporters in 35 Whelen are not too far behind.
Covergent evolution ?


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Anyone who claims the 30-06 is not effective has either not used one, or else is unwittingly commenting on their marksmanship.
Re: 35 Whelen question for Phil Shoemaker [Re: 458Win] #2030602 02/20/08
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A perfect example. Too bad so many .350's were converted to .375 H&H....


“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
Re: 35 Whelen question for Phil Shoemaker [Re: Mule Deer] #2030615 02/20/08
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I talked with Lon yesterday and he just received two original 350 Rigbys in his shop and one was re-barreled to 9.3x72. those slant box Rigby's are about the only way to make that work in a bolt rifle.


Phil Shoemaker
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Anyone who claims the 30-06 is not effective has either not used one, or else is unwittingly commenting on their marksmanship.
Re: 35 Whelen question for Phil Shoemaker [Re: 458Win] #2031513 02/20/08
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A couple of weeks ago I ordered a ss Lilja with 1 in 12 twist. It will be mounted on a ss MRC and planted in a McMillan stock.
I agonized for a couple of weeks if I should go the 338/06 route or the 35 Whelen. In the end the Whelen won.
Holding 5 down in the magazine loaded with either 225 or 250 partitions I think I may of just found my ultimate deer hunting rifle for Kodiak.


My biggest fear is when I die my wife will sell my guns for what I told her they cost.
Re: 35 Whelen question for Phil Shoemaker [Re: Snowwolfe] #2032239 02/20/08
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i think the 35 is a good choice, shoots a 250gr bullet better than the 338-06 and thats what these mid-bores are all about, reasonable size bullet at reasonable velocity, if I wanted something fast in an 06 case then i would lean toward something in 30 caliber, instead of a 200gr 33 cal bullet.

Re: 35 Whelen question for Phil Shoemaker [Re: zxc] #2033133 02/20/08
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Originally Posted by Furprick
If I wanted something fast in an 06 case then i would lean toward


The 25-06 AI . . . grin

BMT


"The Church can and should help modern society by tirelessly insisting that the work of women in the home be recognized and respected by all in its irreplaceable value." Apostolic Exhortation On The Family, Pope John Paul II
Re: 35 Whelen question for Phil Shoemaker [Re: Snowwolfe] #2047345 02/26/08
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Originally Posted by Snowwolfe
A couple of weeks ago I ordered a ss Lilja with 1 in 12 twist... 35 Whelen... I may of just found my ultimate deer hunting rifle for Kodiak.


No: I'd call that the ultimate rifle for North America, personally.

There was a great article in Sports Afield not long ago advocating this exact combination for thin-skinned dangerous game in Africa as well... where allowed, of course.

Sweet sounding choice in armament!!


Don't you ever wonder why
In spite of all that's wrong here
There's still so much that goes so right
And beauty abounds?

The thunder rolls and the baby sighs
And the rain comes down
Don't you wanta thank someone for this?
-Andrew Peterson
Re: 35 Whelen question for Phil Shoemaker [Re: 458Win] #2047698 02/26/08
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Originally Posted by 458Win
One nice advantage of the 35's is the ability to use 357 pistol bullets- either reloaded or from a cartridge adapter. I am setting up a stainless Ruger No 1 in 35 Whelen for just this purpose.


Phil,
Once you hit a woodchuck with that you will forget all about bear hunting! grin
whelennut


I like to do my hunting BEFORE I pull the trigger!
There is only one kind of dead, but there are many different kinds of wounded.
Re: 35 Whelen question for Phil Shoemaker [Re: whelennut] #2055086 02/29/08
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I really love the idea of a 9.3 x 62, but I have and use 3 - .35 Whelens - an ordinary Rem 700 classic, a Sako AV classic re-barreled to .35 W with 24", 1-12" twist, and a Ruger #1A re-barreled with a 24" 1-12".
I have shot right through nearly all the elk and moose I have used these rifles on, (more than a dozen) with 250 gr. Speer Grand slam bullets mostly, but also Hornady RN, Speer Hot Cor, Remington factory loads, and even a few 225 grain bullets. I just can't believe there is any advantage to any cartridge ( or bullet weight) with more penetrating ability for critters that size, including brown bears.
Buy a .358 Norma if you like, or a 9.3x62, 4, 6 whatever, but you won't kill bears any deader than you will with a Whelen. It's fun to dream about new rifles though Isn't it?

Re: 35 Whelen question for Phil Shoemaker [Re: castnblast] #2062630 03/04/08
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Once you get past a 30-06 w/200 NP caliber choice is more or less a personal choice or a sense of well being. This is not to say that a stopping rifle is called for from time to time!

That being said I had my 1st 358 Norma built in 1981 after spending 20 days with Ray MacNutt on Misery Creek lusting over his Norma on a Springfield action.

It's an inherintly accurate cartridge,it's powerfull,it's easy to fireform(338 1 shot} and up to 200 yds or so most bullet wgts shoot in the same killing region.



I tend to use more than enough gun
Re: 35 Whelen question for Phil Shoemaker [Re: waterrat] #2104551 03/23/08
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358 Norma vs 35 Whelan is almost exactly the same argument as 308 vs 30-06. With lighter bullets the 35 Whelan does fine as does the 350 Rem Mag. At 250 to 275 grains the big Norma drives the bullets enough faster to be a more useful all-rounder. 300 grain bullets at 2500-2600ft/sec in the Norma are in a whole different class and as was said are hard to distinguish from the 375 H&H.

I am always happy I have two of the big Norma's a 6.75 pound light barrelled Ruger for when I want to hunt on foot and a 8 pound Sako for when I want to shoot nice groups or hunt from a canoe without being recoiled into the water.

Last edited by North61; 03/23/08.
Re: 35 Whelen question for Phil Shoemaker [Re: North61] #2105185 03/23/08
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I have been eating moose meat for 20yrs , thanks to whelen!

Re: 35 Whelen question for Phil Shoemaker [Re: zxc] #2106363 03/24/08
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The 9.3x62 as Euro-Trash? Now that is funny, I have to remember that and from this day fourth my 9.3x62 has a new name "Euro"...:)


Having used both the 35 Whelen and the 9.3x62, I believe that I can see the 9.3 as a competitor to the .375 H&H and the 35 Whelan as a competitor to the 30-06 with 220 gr. bullets..Just my assessment, both of which are not lacking in any dept.

I shoot the 320 gr. Woodleigh at 2400 FPS in my good mauser with a 26" barrel and that is 375 H&H stuff almost..The best I could get out of my Whelan with a 310 gr. Woodleigh was 2200 FPS, but in a 24 inch barrel.

Lots of varibles here so I wouldn't swear to anything but I will always be a Euro Trash fan! smile smile smile That is funny, ya gotta love that kid, well he's not a kid anymore, he is a grown man and has done a PH stint in Africa as we speak, but its sometimes hard to visulize them as all grown up...:) smile

Re: 35 Whelen question for Phil Shoemaker [Re: atkinsonhunting] #2106969 03/24/08
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A 6 3/4 lb 358 Norma, Ouch. I have a grizzly permit for this spring hopefully I will be able to post some pics sometime in May. I will be using some old style 250 gr Grand Slams in my Whelen.


Gerry.
Re: 35 Whelen question for Phil Shoemaker [Re: gerry35] #2107175 03/24/08
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Originally Posted by gerrygoat
A 6 3/4 lb 358 Norma, Ouch. I have a grizzly permit for this spring hopefully I will be able to post some pics sometime in May. I will be using some old style 250 gr Grand Slams in my Whelen.


Well that's with the synthetic stock...I have since put it back in some dense walnut and she is about 7.25 pounds now. Still a tad vigorous but the magna porting helps a bit too. Gotta love the 35's

Re: 35 Whelen question for Phil Shoemaker [Re: gerry35] #14308201 11/24/19
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Re: 35 Whelen question for Phil Shoemaker [Re: ismith] #14308455 11/24/19
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Re: 35 Whelen question for Phil Shoemaker [Re: ismith] #14308461 11/24/19
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Re: 35 Whelen question for Phil Shoemaker [Re: gerry35] #14337807 12/04/19
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Ismith that is a beautiful rifle!

Re: 35 Whelen question for Phil Shoemaker [Re: safariman] #14337876 12/04/19
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Originally Posted by safariman
Hmmmmm.... this post has me thinking about a Remmy pump gun in 9.3X62.


There was an old article about reboring the Rem 760 to a 375 -06 , could not go that large as the Remington barrel sight screws were to deep wonder if the 9.3 would work. Custom barrel would be difficult
due to the way the bolt engages inside the barrel. The author of the article went to a 338-06 with the rebore,


kk alaska

Alaska 7 months of winter then 5 months of tourists
Re: 35 Whelen question for Phil Shoemaker [Re: 458Win] #14354326 12/09/19
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Originally Posted by 458Win
I guess I do have to plead guilty but, in my defense, I also plan on using it with full power loads as well. The rifle is also one that my son has plans for as he also inherited a full dose of the rifle loony gene. He is a diehard 35 Whelen fan and calls the 9.3x62's "euro-trash"

Nailed it!
The older I get, the more convinced I become that a rifles job is to put decent bullet in just the right spot. The Whelen is one of the calibers that bring together a very nice combination of devastating impact on game while keeping recoil at a manageable level encouraging very good hunting accuracy.
Been using the Whelen for 30 years, my go to load is 250 gr Partitions at a hair under 2500 fps, tho I used a bunch of Hornadys back before SPS came on the scene. I have trialed an used a bunch of powders, hard to find one the Whelen did not like.
Have had a S African visiting the last 2 whitetail seasons here in western NYS. He used my Whelen. Took five shots. Buck and a doe each season, plus a fox. Zero trailing on any of them, which mirror most of my experience.
My 2 cents says that the Whelen delivers a terrific amount of performance in a package that most of us mortal humans can easily live with.
Don't need no stinking euro trash!


Imagine your grave on a windy winter night. You've been dead for 70 years.
It's been 50 since a visitor last paused at your tombstone.....
Now explain why you're in a pissy mood today.
Re: 35 Whelen question for Phil Shoemaker [Re: gerry35] #14354553 12/09/19
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i have been looking for a 35 Whelen in a Remington 760 pump so if someone is buying a bigger cartridge rifle ? let me know .Pete53

Re: 35 Whelen question for Phil Shoemaker [Re: ismith] #14354576 12/09/19
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ismith, now that's an old soldier, for sure.

Do you have any details on it?

Bet it has an interesting history.

DF

Re: 35 Whelen question for Phil Shoemaker [Re: pete53] #14354592 12/09/19
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Originally Posted by pete53
i have been looking for a 35 Whelen in a Remington 760 pump so if someone is buying a bigger cartridge rifle ? let me know .Pete53


Sent you a PM


"The more I am around people the better I like my dog." Mark Twain
Re: 35 Whelen question for Phil Shoemaker [Re: Dirtfarmer] #14355288 12/09/19
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Originally Posted by Dirtfarmer
ismith, now that's an old soldier, for sure.

Do you have any details on it?

Bet it has an interesting history.

DF


It was purchased from the DCM on 16 Feb 1938 by Robert V. Culley of Pheonix, AZ. It was built by Niedner and stocked by Linden, an Anderson safety was added sometime during the 50’s and it came out of an estate in Alaska around 15 years ago. Still doing some research on it. Culley was longtime resident of Tucson, AZ.

Last edited by ismith; 12/09/19.
Re: 35 Whelen question for Phil Shoemaker [Re: ismith] #14355597 12/09/19
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Originally Posted by ismith
Originally Posted by Dirtfarmer
ismith, now that's an old soldier, for sure.

Do you have any details on it?

Bet it has an interesting history.

DF


It was purchased from the DCM on 16 Feb 1938 by Robert V. Culley of Pheonix, AZ. It was built by Niedner and stocked by Linden, an Anderson safety was added sometime during the 50’s and it came out of an estate in Alaska around 15 years ago. Still doing some research on it. Culley was longtime resident of Tucson, AZ.

Cool.

Just looked like a legacy piece.

DF

Re: 35 Whelen question for Phil Shoemaker [Re: pete53] #14356027 12/09/19
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Originally Posted by pete53
i have been looking for a 35 Whelen in a Remington 760 pump so if someone is buying a bigger cartridge rifle ? let me know .Pete53



check out Grices gunshop sale flyer. They got em.

Re: 35 Whelen question for Phil Shoemaker [Re: gerry35] #14380507 12/17/19
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Does anyone have a definitive answer as to Keith and Whelen being exposed to 9.3x62 and "conveniently" forgetting you don't need a 30-06 as a basis of a larger cartridge in .357 or .366 bore? I have one cow elk with 35 Whelen and one black bear with 9.3x62 so I am firmly in both camps.

Re: 35 Whelen question for Phil Shoemaker [Re: gerry35] #14382659 12/18/19
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Fun to see this ten+ year old thread resurface. smile

As I recall, Gerry got his grizzly. smile

Guy

Re: 35 Whelen question for Phil Shoemaker [Re: Cascade] #14383350 12/18/19
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Yes, cool old thread Guy, glad Gerry got his Grizz, 250gr bulk bought Hornadys for practice, 250gr NPT's at 2700 fps for all N.A. big game and African plains game hunting, cant think of what that wont stone out to a long 400 yards.


MOLON-LABE you commie vaginas!
Re: 35 Whelen question for Phil Shoemaker [Re: Carson] #14385349 12/18/19
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Originally Posted by Carson
Does anyone have a definitive answer as to Keith and Whelen being exposed to 9.3x62 and "conveniently" forgetting you don't need a 30-06 as a basis of a larger cartridge in .357 or .366 bore? I have one cow elk with 35 Whelen and one black bear with 9.3x62 so I am firmly in both camps.

Keith knew about the 9.3x74Rimmed cartridge and proceeded to make a 338 out of it....

Early on he did like the 9mm Mauser rifle cartridge.

I would suspect bullet and case availability to be the major problem of the time in regards to the 9.3x62



Re: 35 Whelen question for Phil Shoemaker [Re: gerry35] #14408752 12/27/19
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I am sure rifle loonies like Keith and Whelen knew of the 9.3's but metric designations have never been popular with Americans. At least until the Creedmore era 😜.
Which explains my son's tongue-in-cheek naming of the 9.3x62.
But the 35 Whelen and 9.3x62, when loaded to identical pressure levels, are mighty close, especially with the new loads from Buffalo Bore.


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Anyone who claims the 30-06 is not effective has either not used one, or else is unwittingly commenting on their marksmanship.
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