Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire Christianity could possibly become a minority religion in US as early as 2045…

That's an easy way to dismiss whatever you don't agree with. Anyone can say it.

I don’t believe I’ve ever asked you that sir; I’m also not sure I have ever even engaged you directly.

Meant no offense simply attempting to understand where you’re coming from.

You suggest the physical is something to be overcome or escaped, so I asked if you if you represent a point of view.

What point of view DO you represent? Where have you gotten the ideas you’re putting forward?

I’m ignorant of them and their origins.

Again I meant no offense.

I understood your statement to indicate spiritual transcendence through spiritual awareness, growth, connection, etc. I did not intentionally or unintentionally imply physical transcendence. Your statement certainly sounds like Spiritualism and the teachings of the spirit transcending the physical existence so that a person can interact with God on a different level. If I’m wrong so be it you have my apology but this is what I took from your statement.

It is about context. When Paul talks about his accomplishments as a Pharisee, he was not justifying himself before God, he was justify himself before men showing who he was, and his faith. James is doing the same thing here. He is not talking about works justifying ourselves before God, but showing that we are faithful before men. Justification has always been through the blood of Christ through the promise and three belief.

The question I have to answer personally relates to what the cost for saving me was. That cost was Christ, living a perfect life, taking my son up on himself, as though he were sinful dying for me, and rising from the dead. If that is the cost for me to be saved, there is absolutely nothing that I can do to add to that cost improve upon it, enhance it in any way.

The work or works that we must remain in are faith in Christ. Resting in the promise. Resting and the reality. Just like Abraham, the father of our faith, rested in the promise at the messiah would come and do for us and in us what we were unable to do in and for ourselves.

If our works or what is used to keep us in the faith and grow us in the faith, please explain that in relation to the context of John 15, where Christ talks about the vine, and the branches and fruit. Please explain it in relation to hell. You’re a human actions can somehow improve upon or enhance the work that Christ did for us.

I would suggest studying John 15. Branches are grafted into the vine. Branches through their own work, do not produce fruit. Jesus very clearly says that fruit or Works are produced through abiding in him because he is the source of the life that flows through the branch.

As a branch grafted into the vine what are you doing to produce good works within yourself? If you’re doing good works to improve upon something that God did Christ himself sucked at the analogies that he used to describe what is happening in the believer.

Why do you hold out special concession for science? If there is a God, he is far beyond our comprehension yet you demand Godby comprehended within the terms that you set.

We do not look in the face of God. God remains hidden in the metaphysical. Simple observation would demonstrate this to us yet you demand that God sent your definition, so that he can be explained, defined and categorized through physical means the parameters of which you set through scientific method. the logic of demanding a physical evidence for metaphysical being seems more than a bit silly.

But then there is a point in time and history when we do see God yet you deny that as a falsehood and narrative a conjuring a creation of men.

If your good works or what is saving you what are you doing that is affecting that salvation personally?

Maybe? I’m trying to figure it out.

Kent, no offense intended. I’ve studied the different religious movements in American Christianity for years. When I see something new or something that I don’t understand I ask questions.

Faith in The Science runs deep.

Good point. Isn’t science and invention of man?

I don't understand your question. Maybe it has some typos or omissions? Please read it over.

First off everyone of the main players in this thread have been participating in these discussions for years, back when Ken Howell was alive and Curdog used to post, RickD, many others not posting anymore. It's like we have met around a table every couple months, by this point I know where each of you are coming from on a particular point... so you comment to me across the table and claim it's the first time you engaged me... you have engaged me many times.

I don't have to rewrite the thousands of words I've written here every time someone writes a one sentence comment to me or misrepresents what I wrote. Like Curdog used to say, I wrote the black letters in my post. can't help it if someone reads the white in between.

Show me where I said... the physical is something to be over come or escaped

IZH27 addressed me on his inability to transcend and ascend spiritually after years of trying, I said you can't be a spiritual being until the physical is severed, death. This is in the context of my statement that Jesus was the only one who existed as 100% physical and 100% spiritual at the same time, with all the knowledge of both. I guess I should have just told him he was dumb for wasting his time like the christians here tell anyone they disagree with, instead of trying to help him understand why it was impossible.

Christ's life example is my theology, the Holy Spirit is my communication, mentor, lifeline to Christ and God, there is no physical path to spiritual salvation after death. Jesus's resurrection is real and the proof that physical death is not the end. In that context we cannot transcend or ascend until physical death. But we can have a personal relationship with Christ and God through the Holy Spirit while here.

I see the struggle of most recognizing the Holy Spirit in their life spiritually. They think it's from a suit and tie at a pulpit, a building, man words, tenets. They say they're 'filled' with the Holy Spirit but don't use it.

Our spirit here is very weak, dampened, the Holy Spirit can be very strong in us if we let it.

When we join together in the Holy Spirit it is amplified.

Kent

The only change I'm aware of is that Luther added the word "alone" to Romans 3:28. He also moved some books to lower statuses.

It is not rational nor logical that you would make …..what you seem to consider a statement of fact or truth….. that God does not communicate directly and openly. You may not see or hear God, but it is just plain ignorant to state that others do not.

You are simply expressing you own opinion which apparently reflects your own experience.

You are are also wrong about “we would all be theists” given an “objective experience of God.”


There were many that walked and talked with Jesus….. witnessed His miracles…. yet turned their backs.


God did “appear objectively and openly….” He let’s His presence be known in at least three ways…..the majesty of Creation…. The Word of God in the Bible and through the conviction and witness of the Holy Spirit.


Seek…find…….don’t seek, don’t find.

I see....you have your opinion, others have their opinion, and I have mine....

Fair enough. I accept that, and have no problem with it. However, if someone makes a statement, I certainly expect them to be able to give a sense of what they’re saying so that I can understand where they’re coming from. Intern, if I make a statement, I expect the same of myself to be able to give us a sense of what I believe.

if I’m not misunderstanding, you very much believe that your works somehow enhance what God has done in your life to save you as though you’re helping him accomplish what it is that he has done. I definitely without doubt used to think that way myself. However, the reality of my own capability overwhelms me and that View left me empty. if indeed, you are contributing to your salvation, it should be very easy to enumerate those things that you are in deed contributing

I apologize. I do a lot of voice to text and sometimes that gets scrambled up and I don’t always proofread as well as I should.

If I understand your view properly, you look at Jesus instructions on keeping the law as a means of salvation. It seems also that you hold the view the Old Testament taught a law based salvation.

I grew up in legalism, which had a very strong emphasis on what we do influencing impacting determining the effectiveness of our faith effective.

The question I’m trying to ask is what measurement are you using to determine the effectiveness of the works and obedience necessary to keep the law and be saved?

I misunderstood the meaning of your comment, “ When our physical body dies and we transcend and ascend to just our spiritual existence, that is severing the physical.”

My experience in these threads is that we often use identical terms and phrases to mean vastly different things due to differing points of view. It is difficult to understand one another.

Sounds like you may have me pegged but I don’t understand your point of view.

Wish you and everyone here grace & peace.

I've admitted to God I have been a bad person, apologized, repented and now trying to love God and treat others as I would expect to be treated. I have deduced that the big 10 are still in force and while some of the more arcane regulations back in Deuteronomy and Leviticus may have only pertained to Israel during their sojourn there are some very important to the social harmony and good health. Such as the condemnation of sexual deviancy and the consumption of things such as reptiles and hogs. So I'm trying to live out my life in kindness as far as reasonably possible and avoiding the nasty foods prohibited and reemphasized in even Isaiah 66. It does seem particularly offensive to be consuming swine and rodents.

As to the swine and shellfish and reptiles (especially alligators) their diets and implications in human disease transmission illustrate the Mosaic laws and just like the big 10 are for the benefit of mankind not God.

I have both wild hogs and alligators on my property and they will eat things a buzzard won't eat. I understand hogs are raised in captivity and fed a restricted diet but they are swine and a lot of people (my wife included) are allergic to them and they play a big part in transforming viruses into human pathogens.

Here's the thing - science is demonstably true, no faith needed. Ignorance or arrogance may well prevent you from admitting that. We never prayed the internet into existence.

Believing anything that has no proof or basis in reality seems more than a bit silly.

Documentation of seeing god 2000 years ago is about as reliable as that for seeing Spiderman in the 20th century, although we do have photos and videos of the latter.

Metaphysical and supernatural are just easy-out excuses used by the impatient, ignorant people. How much of that magic stuff has evaporated since we've learned more throughout the ages?