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Re: Expensive vs less expensive on performance? Oldelkhunter #17663100 10/04/22
Joined: Nov 2006 Posts: 3,657 Utah B boatanchor Campfire Tracker
boatanchor Campfire Tracker B Joined: Nov 2006 Posts: 3,657 Utah	Originally Posted by Oldelkhunter Originally Posted by Overkill45 ASG rifles are rated for smokeless so thats a huge difference. Good luck getting a 275gr bullet moving 2800fps+ with BH209. Arrowhead also does not use Variflame but it does use a LRMP module. Its a far better design than the Variflame. This in spades. If I were to go to a Paramount I would buy the ASG breech plug no questions asked. They are using a superior barrel as well that can withstand the pressure of smokeless, a paramount barrel cannot and CVA very clearly states that. You cant just buy an ASG breech plug to screw into a Paramount, the LRMP module has to be properly headspaced. but a big plus using Fed215's instead of 209's. The barrel on mine is a Brux that is rated for smokeless but in my state I have to use Blackhorn to be legal. My gunsmith made me a switch barrel Muzzleloader/Centerfire Rifle. It started out as a Winchester Heavy Varmint in 220 Swift, My gunsmith installed the Arrowhead muzzleloader conversion in 45cal (I chose this rifle for the conversion so that NO inletting had to be done to the stock). Mine shoots a 300gr Arrowhead bullet with 105gr weighed BH209 powder at 2520fps, I have it dialed in good accuracy wise at 400yds

GB1

Re: Expensive vs less expensive on performance? boatanchor #17665188 10/04/22
Joined: Sep 2004 Posts: 29,383 O Oldelkhunter Campfire Ranger
Oldelkhunter Campfire Ranger O Joined: Sep 2004 Posts: 29,383	Originally Posted by boatanchor Originally Posted by Oldelkhunter Originally Posted by Overkill45 ASG rifles are rated for smokeless so thats a huge difference. Good luck getting a 275gr bullet moving 2800fps+ with BH209. Arrowhead also does not use Variflame but it does use a LRMP module. Its a far better design than the Variflame. This in spades. If I were to go to a Paramount I would buy the ASG breech plug no questions asked. They are using a superior barrel as well that can withstand the pressure of smokeless, a paramount barrel cannot and CVA very clearly states that. You cant just buy an ASG breech plug to screw into a Paramount, the LRMP module has to be properly headspaced. but a big plus using Fed215's instead of 209's. The barrel on mine is a Brux that is rated for smokeless but in my state I have to use Blackhorn to be legal. My gunsmith made me a switch barrel Muzzleloader/Centerfire Rifle. It started out as a Winchester Heavy Varmint in 220 Swift, My gunsmith installed the Arrowhead muzzleloader conversion in 45cal (I chose this rifle for the conversion so that NO inletting had to be done to the stock). Mine shoots a 300gr Arrowhead bullet with 105gr weighed BH209 powder at 2520fps, I have it dialed in good accuracy wise at 400yds PLEASE DISREGARD THE HEADSPACE INSTRUCTIONS IN THIS VIDEO. THE PARAMOUNT HAS CONSISTENT ENOUGH HEAD SPACE THAT ADJUSTMENTS AREN’T NEEDED. Thats per ASG's site.

Re: Expensive vs less expensive on performance? Pappy348 #17665577 10/04/22
Joined: Aug 2010 Posts: 1,556 SW PA B bobinpa Campfire Regular
bobinpa Campfire Regular B Joined: Aug 2010 Posts: 1,556 SW PA	Originally Posted by Pappy348 Originally Posted by bobinpa I own an Arrowhead ML. I bought it because I wanted to be able to shoot at game out to 400 yards or so CONFIDENTLY so if the opportunity presented itself, I could make the shot, not just take the shot. It shoots as good as some of my custom guns..... consistently .75 moa or better. A lot of muzzleloaders will get the job done for less but few will deliver that level of performance consistently and repeatedly. I felt if I was going to take a shot that far, I owed it to the animal to have the best equipment I could get my hands on. I see that they only ship to FFLs. Are their rifles, not the 700 conversions, considered “firearms”. Not going there, just curious. Looks like you made a good choice, and a responsible one.👍🏻 What are you shooting in yours? I'm using 113.5 gr of Blackhorn behind a 327gr Parker Black max. Unbelievably accurate... I sure could go for some $2.50/gal gas and a mean tweet! NRA Benefactor member, disgruntled. Life member: Firearms Owners Against Crime. Life member: GOA Member: RMEF TRUMP 2020

Re: Expensive vs less expensive on performance? Oldelkhunter #17666255 10/05/22
Joined: Nov 2006 Posts: 3,657 Utah B boatanchor Campfire Tracker
boatanchor Campfire Tracker B Joined: Nov 2006 Posts: 3,657 Utah	Originally Posted by Oldelkhunter PLEASE DISREGARD THE HEADSPACE INSTRUCTIONS IN THIS VIDEO. What video would that be ????

Re: Expensive vs less expensive on performance? rjf #17666350 10/05/22
Joined: Sep 2004 Posts: 29,383 O Oldelkhunter Campfire Ranger
Oldelkhunter Campfire Ranger O Joined: Sep 2004 Posts: 29,383	https://www.arrowheadrifles.com/product/paramount-arrowhead-gen2-upgrade/ or better yet give them a call. it is a drop in fit. Last edited by Oldelkhunter; 10/05/22.

IC B2

Re: Expensive vs less expensive on performance? rjf #17669085 10/05/22
Joined: Nov 2006 Posts: 3,657 Utah B boatanchor Campfire Tracker
boatanchor Campfire Tracker B Joined: Nov 2006 Posts: 3,657 Utah	Very nice but not a video

Re: Expensive vs less expensive on performance? boatanchor #17669571 10/06/22
Joined: Sep 2004 Posts: 29,383 O Oldelkhunter Campfire Ranger
Oldelkhunter Campfire Ranger O Joined: Sep 2004 Posts: 29,383	Originally Posted by boatanchor Very nice but not a video You have reading comprehension issues. Point is I said you did not have to send in the rifle to get the plug fitted and I was right. GFY

Re: Expensive vs less expensive on performance? rjf #17670873 10/06/22
Joined: Nov 2006 Posts: 3,657 Utah B boatanchor Campfire Tracker
boatanchor Campfire Tracker B Joined: Nov 2006 Posts: 3,657 Utah	Old El' Kchunter, you have writing comprehension issues, no need to be a dick

Re: Expensive vs less expensive on performance? rjf #17672146 10/06/22
Joined: Feb 2021 Posts: 181 Sw VA A afisher Campfire Member
afisher Campfire Member A Joined: Feb 2021 Posts: 181 Sw VA	Paramount doesn’t use a 209 primer to start with anyways. Variflame system still uses a LRMP but it’s not a sealed system like ASG with brass modules. Cecil Epps of Precision Rifle(dead center bullets) is the brain child of the variflame system. To each their own but I’m pretty fond of my smokeless 45cal built with Hankins parts on a M700 action. A person can beat that $5,000 price tag with a little research and doing their own leg work and getting your own parts pile together and having a competent gunsmith doing the machining.

Re: Expensive vs less expensive on performance? rjf #17683136 10/10/22
Joined: Mar 2011 Posts: 655 S Skatchewan Campfire Regular
Skatchewan Campfire Regular S Joined: Mar 2011 Posts: 655	The main reason to spend $5000 on a muzzleloader, is to tell others you spent $5000 on a muzzleloader.

IC B3

Re: Expensive vs less expensive on performance? rjf #17698923 10/15/22
Joined: Aug 2014 Posts: 5,025 Likes: 2 H Hogwild7 Campfire Tracker
Hogwild7 Campfire Tracker H Joined: Aug 2014 Posts: 5,025 Likes: 2	I have a relative that has a smokeless he elk hunts with. He kills them over 300 yds. He paid 3 k for his. It was worth it to him.

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