Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Handguns FMJ-FP vs Hard Cast FP

This topic has come up in the context of other threads, but I think it deserves it’s own thread. What is the difference in performance (penetration, etc) on game between the two? Assume equivalent calibers, velocity, and profile.

For example, folks seem to speak highly of the Buffalo Bore 9mm 147gr Hard Cast FP. What makes it better than something like the Federal 147gr FMF-FP? Both have similar bullet profiles, both are ‘non expanding’, and both are about 1,000 fps give or take.

You can't assume that a FMJ is non expanding because some are plated and are very soft and flatten like a pure soft lead bullet.

A hard cast is hard

Years ago Sierra made a 240 gr Silhouette bullet that was purported to be a fine penetrator. I shot them and they were accurate but I never put them to game. I believe I still have some.

Ran the Federal 180gr FMJ out of my Glock 22 40cal for years. Reliable, affordable, and it has an nice big flat meplat running 1000fps from this glock. It's been my outside field load for years and is reliable where the hot 10mm auto hot ammo is far from reliable.

And yes this 40 s&w is better than my 9mm as the flat is larger than that of 9mm, has more weight, and runs at the same velocity. I've shot an bear once with 9mm and results were poor compared to other handguns.

Why do you claim the 10mm is not reliable? My XDM-ELITE is dead nuts reliable shooting 200 grain flat point hard cast at 1200 FPS

I thought of this but didn’t want to mention it in the op. Assuming the FMJ is indeed stout would it change your opinion?

The sharpness of the edge of the meplat may make some difference. A hard cast will be more likely to have a sharper edge... though thanks to the ogive, it won't be like a wadcutter. All flat nose FMJ's I have seen are kinda rounded over around the edge.

I have no experience with them one way or the other, just a thought.

Equally hard and same shape and velocity they be close in performance

I think the differences between the two are almost entirely academic. The hardcast should be more dense, and thus penetrate some minuscule amount more. But they are also more likely to deform when striking bone. I use them interchangeably, but I prefer the IDEA of the hardcast flatpoints.

Your XDM-Elite. Yeah, I got one too and none of this is foreign to me. And no those big lead bullets with wide meplats in auto loaders on average have much higher fail to feed rates than FMJ. Despite what folks say Glocks with the long fully supported barrels are the worst offenders.

Besides this, not many 10mm cartridges on average are expended and they're only capped off infrequently. In an revolver those big wide meplats are best and there's no feed ramps or feeding issues once chambered.

I get that someone's personal 10mm might be feed reliable, I get it. Bit overall that boutique loads don't have high round counts the factory FMJ lots do such as my 40 180gr FMJ. Beside that an 180gr @ 1000fps is pretty darn good. Not the equal of 10mm but then again not too shabby and it's cheap and very reliable. If I need more I'd get an 44 and 45colt and leave my 40 and 10mm back in my safe.

I have some of those, but they are 220 gr. I just might try them this year.

In Indiana,full metal jacket bullets aren't legal for deer hunting, but cast are. I guess they don't consider lead a metal....

Was that the Full Profile jacket 250? I blew a hole in a black bear at 15 feet with that bullet.


Totally true. In fact if you cross score or “file” the plaiting off the front, some don’t make bad softies at 1k impact.

Agreed, learned this with my first 45 Super build many years ago, tore up both Hornady and Nosler 230gr FMJ-FP's in heavy waxed cardboard moving bullet boxes with hard packed glossy Wife magazines with cattle bones, granted 250 grains and 100 fps slower, but couldn't tear up the same 250-255gr hard cast round flat point bullets i shot in 45 Colt SAA, iirc 15 BHN alloy, they ran 1050 fps+ in that first Super.

The 40 short and weak can be fired in the 10mm many feed and fire then just fine. A 200 grain at1200 FPS is pretty good

Duncan McPherson did not give much credibility to non expanding Flat Nose bullets as far as I have been able to determine.

"Then, in fairly quick succession, we were confronted by some very strange facts. We recovered a number of small calibre bullets from large animals where the bullets worked extraordinarily well. All of them were the same shape. The petals were completely torn off and the bullet front was expanded to a virtually flat shape. Weight retention was around 80 to 85 %. Experimentally, we then designed some hard bullets and some soft bullets and went shooting animals. more expansion with full weight retention, the effect on the animal was less dramatic than with the "soft" bullets that broke down to 80% or so. To add to the confusion, our FN bullets were becoming an unprecedented success. Wound channels from the FN bullets resembled those of soft nosed premium bullets that expand to double calibre and more.

Clearly something was better about the soft HV design and the FN flat nose. For someone like me with forty years worth of input that said "good mushroom, maximum weight retention" it was impossible to figure out. The results were indisputable though, and the HV concept was born. While we designed HV bullets that would go as fast as possible, completely expand in one to two inches, throw off the three petals and then carry on as an expanded cylindrical shape, we searched for an answer to explain why the effect was so dramatic

The explanation came in the form of an excellent book by Duncan MacPherson - "Bullet Penetration". His research reveals a couple of things:
1. It removes all doubt that the most valuable wound trauma incapacitation mechanism is a single large wound channel.
2. It proves conclusively that the most reliable instrument with which to inflict the maximum amount of disruption was a vertical faced, sharp edged projectile.


http://www.gsgroup.co.za/faqexpansion.html

Hard cast bullets get more velocity at the same pressure than jacketed bullets.

Theres no reason to choose jacketed bullets over hardcast unless you're looking for expansion characteristics in a handgun cartridge by using an effective expanding bullet.

Jacketed Bullets that reliably expand at handgun velocities are harder to find than you may expect.

Back in the day, Super Vel dropped down to 110 grain bullets and drove them *hot* in order to get expansion at +P .38 special velocities.

I prefer dead soft plumbers lead in the form of a SWCHP in order to get expansion from a .36 caliber bullet at subsonic velocities.

Bullets from dead soft plumbers lead have their limitations, however. In my opinion, a .45 caliber full wadcutter of 300 grains of dead soft plumbers lead pushed to 750 fps is as good as it gets from a handgun cartridge. Push them very much faster and they'll glom up the barrel.

300 grains of dead soft, .45 caliber lead traveling 750 fps is going to demonstrate impact. Dwell time, and all that.

It will move stuff around.

For example, a .30 caliber, 100 grain projectile at 1600 fps will pencil through somebody. A 300 grain, 452 diameter full wadcutter at 750 fps is going to slap the schitt out of them.

There are some seriously dumb hunting laws across this country. Zero logic. CO states for handgun hunting the energy as to be 550ft-lbs. at 50 yards. Like who the FXXX measures velocity at 50 yards to actually verify that? WI used to have a law that said handgun barrels had to be 5.5 inches or longer, but no energy requirement. So a 25acp was legal as long as it was in a 5.5" barrel.

exactly. Plus meplats. Do not normally see 9mm full metal jackets with a meplat out front.