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Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 1,488
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 1,488 |
Vortex found the sweet spot. Their price point is lower on top of the line & above average performers that appeal to the audience here. Their budget line is above crap level & if it breaks you get a new one.
They aren’t the snobby big 3 from Europe but they aren’t $29 blister pack Tasco junk either. They have hunters who know their cousin the former sniper uses a Vortex to shoot PRS matches. They trust their Diamondback is a quality product because it has a lifetime warranty. For a box a year sit in the deer stand hunter they are right - if it sights in it’s going to work trouble free for years.
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Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 1,222
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 1,222 |
When it comes to brands that market their no questions asked, lifetime warranty, particularly one with a reputation for not only replacing products, but regularly replacing said products with upgraded products, I recommend asking some questions.
The first question would be this, why would they replace it vs repairing it? It could be that they just want to make a customer happy. Or, it could be that it is just as cost effective to replace it as it is to repair it. $$$ is most always the deciding factor in business, particularly in a situation where a company has multiple options to choose from (repair vs replace) that can/will fulfill their commitment. IF for some reason the answer to the above question is that it is lower cost to replace, the next logical question to me is how can that be? How could it be, for example, lower cost to replace a complete scope vs repairing a canted reticle, or replacing an erector system that doesn’t work properly? I’ve been around manufacturing and manufactured goods my entire career. I can’t see that there would be more than one hour of assembly labor in most rifle scopes. How cheaply made (cost of scope to company) does a product have to be that it doesn’t justify spending even hour of labor, plus the cost of the defective component, to repair it vs just giving away a new one.
After coming to terms with the above, consider what type of cost vs price structure, or margins need to be in place for the above business model to be profitable. Keeping in mind that they have to cover overhead and what must be the largest marketing budget in sporting optics. Now, if a Vortex Viper 2.5-10x44 sells for $500 at Midway, and that $500 covers both Midway’s and Vortex’s profit demands, plus Vortex’s marketing, plus some margin to cover their warranty costs (to replace whatever % of them fail), etc… how much of that $500 is left to pay for the actual cost to produce the scope. $200? $100? $50? At anyone of those, it has to be made from CHEAP components.
I’ll take my chances, and my money, elsewhere.
Carry on……LOL Good post. Succinctly and accurately frames the situation. You know they gotta be spending piles of cash on marketing merch; you see it everywhere.
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Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 8,346 Likes: 2
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 8,346 Likes: 2 |
for me the jury is out on a Vortex yet ? i had one Vortex come in on trade in i sold the Vortex and kept the rifle. i have sighted in a couple of rifles for customer`s rifles , these Vortex scopes seem ok ? i like Nightforce scopes much better myself so that`s what`s on my hunting rifles and my bench rifles they always work right and hold zero. maybe some of us spend to much money on hunting equipment , but i don`t want my scope to fail me ever so i pay more for quality on guns ,scopes and my reloading equipment its a better investment for my family and myself`s fun times.
LIFE NRA , we vote Red up here, Norseman
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Joined: Oct 2022
Posts: 12
New Member
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New Member
Joined: Oct 2022
Posts: 12 |
I have had a Viper PST II 5-25x50 FFP EBR 2c Mil reticle on a 300PRC Christensen MPR with a 45 MOA rail shooting 230 grain Atip match bullets in ADC brass out to 2000 yds for the last 2 years (208 rounds fired). The only flaw I have found is the parallax adjustment beyond about 1700 yards is not correct. It always returns to the same zero and the windage also returns to zero with no problems. Both the gun and scope are a first attempt at long range target shooting and I'd say we (my son and I) have been very happy and learned enough from both of them to consider moving up to a real 375 Cheytac rifle and Nightforce scope. If only money grew on trees....
We also have a Vortex Fury HD range finding binocular that has been excellent and durable the last 2 years.
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 26,691 Likes: 22
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 26,691 Likes: 22 |
I have had a Viper PST II 5-25x50 FFP EBR 2c Mil reticle on a 300PRC Christensen MPR with a 45 MOA rail shooting 230 grain Atip match bullets in ADC brass out to 2000 yds for the last 2 years (208 rounds fired). The only flaw I have found is the parallax adjustment beyond about 1700 yards is not correct. It always returns to the same zero and the windage also returns to zero with no problems. Both the gun and scope are a first attempt at long range target shooting and I'd say we (my son and I) have been very happy and learned enough from both of them to consider moving up to a real 375 Cheytac rifle and Nightforce scope. If only money grew on trees....
We also have a Vortex Fury HD range finding binocular that has been excellent and durable the last 2 years. Do you, by chance, like Viking food?
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 8,341 Likes: 3
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 8,341 Likes: 3 |
I have a 4-16x50 viper on a old 30-06, about the same quality of glass as a VXII. Mine tracks fine, I'm not disappointed for a cheap scope. But that's a sample size of one.
"Life is tough, even tougher if your stupid"
John Wayne
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,043 Likes: 4
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,043 Likes: 4 |
I only have one Vortex scope, a 1-6x24 Razor HD Gen 2E that is on an AR-15 I shoot in competition. It's a very good scope and has held up well for several years in competition. I know that this model is the most popular scope for 3 gun shooters. In 3 gun, scopes get beat up some because the shooters are moving fast and often throw their rifles into dump boxes during a stage. This is probably a tougher environment than the use by most hunters. These scopes have to be pretty durable to function well under those conditions. But they are expensive scopes at almost $2000 currently.
I think I can say that this model has been well tested and found to perform well. However, Vortex makes many other models at many price points and each of these scopes would have to be evaluated separately. I think the answer to the question how good Vortex scopes are is probably: "it depends."
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 42,931 Likes: 14
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 42,931 Likes: 14 |
Like the 4 or 5 I have... 4 x 16 and 6 x 24. Would buy another....
"Minus the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the Country" Marion Barry, Mayor of Wash DC
“Owning guns is not a right. If it were a right, it would be in the Constitution.” ~Alexandria Ocasio Cortez
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Joined: Oct 2022
Posts: 12
New Member
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New Member
Joined: Oct 2022
Posts: 12 |
Yes Paul, I do like Viking food as I am of Scandinavian ancestry.
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 59
Campfire Greenhorn
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Campfire Greenhorn
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 59 |
I have a 6-24 Viper PST on a 6.5 Creedmoor that I’ve dialed quite a bit. Tracking has been spot on and the adjustments are positive. Glass is unimpressive and I wouldn’t put it on a hunting rifle, but it’s working well for targets.
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Joined: Oct 2022
Posts: 539
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Oct 2022
Posts: 539 |
When it comes to brands that market their no questions asked, lifetime warranty, particularly one with a reputation for not only replacing products, but regularly replacing said products with upgraded products, I recommend asking some questions.
The first question would be this, why would they replace it vs repairing it? It could be that they just want to make a customer happy. Or, it could be that it is just as cost effective to replace it as it is to repair it. $$$ is most always the deciding factor in business, particularly in a situation where a company has multiple options to choose from (repair vs replace) that can/will fulfill their commitment. IF for some reason the answer to the above question is that it is lower cost to replace, the next logical question to me is how can that be? How could it be, for example, lower cost to replace a complete scope vs repairing a canted reticle, or replacing an erector system that doesn’t work properly? I’ve been around manufacturing and manufactured goods my entire career. I can’t see that there would be more than one hour of assembly labor in most rifle scopes. How cheaply made (cost of scope to company) does a product have to be that it doesn’t justify spending even hour of labor, plus the cost of the defective component, to repair it vs just giving away a new one.
After coming to terms with the above, consider what type of cost vs price structure, or margins need to be in place for the above business model to be profitable. Keeping in mind that they have to cover overhead and what must be the largest marketing budget in sporting optics. Now, if a Vortex Viper 2.5-10x44 sells for $500 at Midway, and that $500 covers both Midway’s and Vortex’s profit demands, plus Vortex’s marketing, plus some margin to cover their warranty costs (to replace whatever % of them fail), etc… how much of that $500 is left to pay for the actual cost to produce the scope. $200? $100? $50? At anyone of those, it has to be made from CHEAP components.
I’ll take my chances, and my money, elsewhere.
Carry on……LOL I think replacing the scope is to make the customer happy. It doesn't just make them happy because they are getting a brand new scope, possibly even an upgrade but also keeps the customer from having to wait on the repairs. There are plenty of nightmares out on the internet about poor CS from scope manufacturers. From the very get go, vortex has been about customer support. When they first started appearing on the market, everyone was talking about their great customer support and how it was the best CS in the industry. It has helped them a great deal with sales. I know I bought their scopes because of all of the hype. I mentioned before that I am not all that impressed with the glass but they seem to be solid scopes. I have had 4, none of which ever had to be sent back. As for their cost, I think if the scope is repairable, they repair it and sell it as refurbished. There is a website aaoptics that sells refurbished vortex scopes. Also, how many scopes get sent back? If its low percentage compared to sales then replacing a defective scope with a new one is no big deal. I am with you as far as taking my money elsewhere simply because in my opinion the quality of the glass itself does not compete with other scopes in the same price range.
2 Kings 2:23-24
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Joined: Jul 2020
Posts: 769
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Jul 2020
Posts: 769 |
When it comes to brands that market their no questions asked, lifetime warranty, particularly one with a reputation for not only replacing products, but regularly replacing said products with upgraded products, I recommend asking some questions.
The first question would be this, why would they replace it vs repairing it? It could be that they just want to make a customer happy. Or, it could be that it is just as cost effective to replace it as it is to repair it. $$$ is most always the deciding factor in business, particularly in a situation where a company has multiple options to choose from (repair vs replace) that can/will fulfill their commitment. IF for some reason the answer to the above question is that it is lower cost to replace, the next logical question to me is how can that be? How could it be, for example, lower cost to replace a complete scope vs repairing a canted reticle, or replacing an erector system that doesn’t work properly? I’ve been around manufacturing and manufactured goods my entire career. I can’t see that there would be more than one hour of assembly labor in most rifle scopes. How cheaply made (cost of scope to company) does a product have to be that it doesn’t justify spending even hour of labor, plus the cost of the defective component, to repair it vs just giving away a new one.
After coming to terms with the above, consider what type of cost vs price structure, or margins need to be in place for the above business model to be profitable. Keeping in mind that they have to cover overhead and what must be the largest marketing budget in sporting optics. Now, if a Vortex Viper 2.5-10x44 sells for $500 at Midway, and that $500 covers both Midway’s and Vortex’s profit demands, plus Vortex’s marketing, plus some margin to cover their warranty costs (to replace whatever % of them fail), etc… how much of that $500 is left to pay for the actual cost to produce the scope. $200? $100? $50? At anyone of those, it has to be made from CHEAP components.
I’ll take my chances, and my money, elsewhere.
Carry on……LOL Spot on! Vortex is singing the praises of their warranty, rather than focusing on build quality. I'm currently in S.Africa and Vortex is huge down here, especially at the retail stores. They push Vortex...hard. When I had the conversation about being from the U.S. and that we view Vortex as a mid-low shelf brand because they frequently need replacing through warranty, the sales manager gave me a puzzled look and asked "what's wrong with that - you're getting another scope free". Yeah, except the scope probably failed during my hunt and ruined said hunt. "Oh, yes, I see." I'll buy from optics companies with bulletproof warranties who don't have quality issues. Vortex is NOT on that list.
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