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Joined: Dec 2019
Posts: 62
Campfire Greenhorn
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Campfire Greenhorn
Joined: Dec 2019
Posts: 62 |
I strongly recommend against a WC .458 SOCOM barrel. It is not a legit reamer (reverse engineered).
MUCH BETTER OPTIONS/companies if you seek that caliber... Our chamber is the one that will work with new production unsized Starline cases. P, T & G worked with us to optimize the chamber. Current production cases are larger than Marty's original chamber in a couple areas. My bitch has always been that Wilson Combat took Marty .458 SOCOM design AND NAME... and built the chamberings WITHOUT Marty's approval. IF WC had built a modified variation and called it .458 Wilson Combat (or whatever)... I would never have raised the topic here or on .458 Socom Forums. Not questioning if they shoot well... or if your nuance changes helped/hurt... moreover the lack of respect I see for Marty. I really don't like being accused of something I didn't do by someone who doesn't know the facts!!! That said, Marty, Tony and I have always gotten along well. Here is a portion of an email conversation with Marty from May 16, 2013 when we were trying to get the cartridge submitted to SAAMI for acceptance. "Attached are the cartridge dimension drawings for the .458 SOCOM as well as the reamer. Again, to avoid the issues that nearly killed the 6.8 SPC, I would recommend staying with the original cartridge dimensions but considering adjusting the reamer dimensions such that we have full cross compatibility with all the rifles and ammunition. Let me know how else I might assist in the SAAMI submission process or if you have any other questions." Best regards Marty I also went back through emails where the standardized chamber dimensions were being discussed with CIP and SAAMI on Dec 9, 2019, this was a comment from Tony: "I have a bunch of different .458 SOCOM prints and I think we can easily agree on the case dimension area of the print (they are all about the same), but the lead/throat number are all over the place. That is what needs to get sorted out." Tony Rumore Tromix FYI the only difference between a Tromix and WC chamber is the lead/throat area, Tromix is slightly longer. Where this whole mess started was with the dimension of the case/chamber just below the shoulder. Marty's original chamber # is .533", Tromix and WC are at .537" (both min #s), the Starline case # is .536" (max #). As you can see a MAX dimension Starline case with a .536" diameter won't fit into an original MIN dimension chamber of .533" !!! There is a LOT more historic info in numerous emails between Tony, Marty, CIP, SAAMI and me, but I don't feel these should be shared here....
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Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 3,326
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 3,326 |
Well played sir! I’ve got two of your lightweight 6.8 stainless 16” barrels. They’re excellent.
Last edited by pabucktail; 12/26/22.
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Joined: Nov 2021
Posts: 582
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Nov 2021
Posts: 582 |
I strongly recommend against a WC .458 SOCOM barrel. It is not a legit reamer (reverse engineered).
MUCH BETTER OPTIONS/companies if you seek that caliber... Our chamber is the one that will work with new production unsized Starline cases. P, T & G worked with us to optimize the chamber. Current production cases are larger than Marty's original chamber in a couple areas. Mr. Wilson, Yesterday, I ordered the 223 WYLDE, SUPER SNIPER, 20", FLUTED, CROWN, STAINLESS, together with gas block and tube. Are all the 223/556 BCGs made to the same specs, or is there any that will work better with this barrel? Thanks, All of our bolts are 9310 and to true MilSpec so should fit with any bbl that's within HS spec. I routinely switch bolts doing testing (usually 5.56 or 300 HAM'R) and have never had an issue with HS. Thank you for your response, Mr. Wilson. I will go with the nickel-boron one for this build.
Igitur quī dēsīderat pācem, præparet bellum
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Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 21,777
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 21,777 |
I just got off the phone with Paladin (TP555) and Tycen (fltmedic1sg) from .458 Socom Forums to refresh my memory. You were pushing the .458 SOCOM hard back then (2013). It WAS BASED ON A REVERSE ENGINEERED REAMER that you had PTG make. That model is long gone from WC now... with the .458 HAM'R replacing it (which I am totally OK with BTW (JUST DON'T STEAL MARTY's 458S DESIGN!!!)), but to claim you had any positive influence in the development of the cartridge is horse chit. I will not argue with you Bill... I bought two of your TR-458K-SR16S-14 .458 SOCOM Build Kit, 14.7" Recon SRs back in 2013. After learning the TRUTH about of the reverse engineering... AND having major drama with your chamberings I disposed of them. You were lambasted on 458socomforums.com for this crap... as well as you AR-15 Africa Safari nonsense... LOL. NON LEGIT .458 SOCOM reamersBuild guns... build great guns... but don't steal valor!
If you are not actively engaging EVERY enemy you encounter... you are allowing another to fight for you... and that is cowardice... plain and simple.
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Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 21,777
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 21,777 |
Page 3 of the link above... ![[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]](https://i.postimg.cc/XYLXjT02/Screenshot-2022-12-26-at-18-42-06-Barrels-using-Marty-s-reamer.png)
If you are not actively engaging EVERY enemy you encounter... you are allowing another to fight for you... and that is cowardice... plain and simple.
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Joined: Dec 2019
Posts: 62
Campfire Greenhorn
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Campfire Greenhorn
Joined: Dec 2019
Posts: 62 |
I just got off the phone with Paladin (TP555) and Tycen (fltmedic1sg) from .458 Socom Forums to refresh my memory. You were pushing the .458 SOCOM hard back then (2013). It WAS BASED ON A REVERSE ENGINEERED REAMER that you had PTG make. That model is long gone from WC now... with the .458 HAM'R replacing it (which I am totally OK with BTW (JUST DON'T STEAL MARTY's 458S DESIGN!!!)), but to claim you had any positive influence in the development of the cartridge is horse chit. I will not argue with you Bill... I bought two of your TR-458K-SR16S-14 .458 SOCOM Build Kit, 14.7" Recon SRs back in 2013. After learning the TRUTH about of the reverse engineering... AND having major drama with your chamberings I disposed of them. You were lambasted on 458socomforums.com for this crap... as well as you AR-15 Africa Safari nonsense... LOL. NON LEGIT .458 SOCOM reamersBuild guns... build great guns... but don't steal valor! No reverse engineering went on, we only changed a diameter dimension (.533" to .537" below the neck) so factory new unsized Starline .536" cases would fit the chamber!!! There is NO bad blood between Marty, Tony or I, ask them What's this crap about .458 and Africa??? My grandson and I both shot Cape Buff and other game with SOCOMS.
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Joined: Dec 2019
Posts: 62
Campfire Greenhorn
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Campfire Greenhorn
Joined: Dec 2019
Posts: 62 |
I will admit we did have an issue with setting our chambers to min HS for awhile, but this was corrected some time back and we now set the HS to min +.002" which I believe to be industry standard. Why they wouldn't send you a matching bolt/bbl I can't explain, but I'll make sure this won't be the case in the future. Thank You for the response, Sir. What is the timeframe that you made the change to your chambering practice? The timeframe for the barrel in question was October 2021 & the person that I corresponded with was Randal Robinson. I'm glad to see that you've changed your practice to be more aligned with industry standard as it is definitely a better move for the mass market for barrels. Doing minimum HS might be fine, so long as you would advise people of that & offer/provide a matching bolt, however, given the really large array of ammo manufacturers of 223/5.56 ammo, many from outside the US, that could still be a problem............I've actually measured some factory ammo at zero HS +.001" which, of course, is not as it should be. At any rate, as I noted in my OP, the barrel I got from your company is a quality barrel in all respects with regards to finish, inside & out, with good cleanability, & it shoots very well. After sighting the scope, the 1st 5 rounds with IMI 77gr Razorcore went into about 3/4". I haven't bothered to work up a better, fine tuned load as that kind of performance with a factory round is perfectly sufficient for my needs. Again, thank you for your kind response. MM Timeframe was mid 2021 through Mar 2020
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 12,115
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 12,115 |
No reverse engineering went on, we only changed a diameter dimension (.533" to .537" below the neck) so factory new unsized Starline .536" cases would fit the chamber!!!
There is NO bad blood between Marty, Tony or I, ask them
What's this crap about .458 and Africa??? My grandson and I both shot Cape Buff and other game with SOCOMS. Toxic internet troll whom we call CashlessQueen. If you want to post on 24hr Campfire you will need to up the game as liars and trolls will abound. Good Luck, Bill. I suggest having plenty of Gifs to SMASH the losers. ![[Linked Image from external-content.duckduckgo.com]](https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fi1.wp.com%2Fthats-normal.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2016%2F06%2Fsaw-that-coming.gif%3Fresize%3D450%252C253&f=1&nofb=1&ipt=694422ab69f70db4b9f9242436ab7c5431acf0a8a89d49b58a50b839fc6ac2d3.gif)
John Burns
I have all the sources.
They can't stop the signal.
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 28,044
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 28,044 |
Did anybody else get a Card from Burns? New toy line? ![[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]](https://i.postimg.cc/0jRtnc2S/Screenshot-2022-12-23-at-15-45-01-Kapwing-Reach-more-people-with-your-content.png) Who said memes?
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 17,411
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 17,411 |
Bill,
Still lovin the 300 HAMR rifle you sold me and the 6mm ARC I built from WC parts with one of the original 6ARC barrels that Tressa found for me.
Mrs Walter took possession of the 6ARC which lives on my WC lower and although she hasn’t killed anything yet, she’s probably 200+ rounds into it and loves it.
Merry Christmas and Happy New Year and please pass my regards to Tressa.
“Live free or die. Death is not the worst of evils.” - General
John Stark.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 23,633
Campfire Ranger
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OP
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 23,633 |
Timeframe was mid 2021 through Mar 2020 Did you mean mid 2021 to Mar 2022? Typo? MM
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Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 21,777
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 21,777 |
No reverse engineering went on, we only changed a diameter dimension (.533" to .537" below the neck) so factory new unsized Starline .536" cases would fit the chamber!!!
There is NO bad blood between Marty, Tony or I, ask them Tony is on this forum... he can stand your credit... Easy as pie.
If you are not actively engaging EVERY enemy you encounter... you are allowing another to fight for you... and that is cowardice... plain and simple.
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Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 21,777
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 21,777 |
What's this crap about .458 and Africa??? You went to Africa with ALTERED AR-15... SINGLE SHOT AR-15s Are fugging kidding me... You are Bill Wilson... Master Gunsmith and FFL... and you went to Africa with single shot AR-15s. Good God man... Think on the depth and breath of that stupidity. FUGG...
If you are not actively engaging EVERY enemy you encounter... you are allowing another to fight for you... and that is cowardice... plain and simple.
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Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 21,777
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 21,777 |
No reverse engineering went on, we only changed a diameter dimension (.533" to .537" below the neck) so factory new unsized Starline .536" cases would fit the chamber!!!
There is NO bad blood between Marty, Tony or I, ask them
What's this crap about .458 and Africa??? My grandson and I both shot Cape Buff and other game with SOCOMS. Toxic internet troll whom we call CashlessQueen. If you want to post on 24hr Campfire you will need to up the game as liars and trolls will abound. Good Luck, Bill. I suggest having plenty of Gifs to SMASH the losers. Burns is dry humping for relativity... He renamed the very obscure cartridge known as .308 Winchester... to 308 Wyoming Arms. Is there a difference? Fugg no... JUST EGO .458 SOCOM... is exactly .458 HAM'R .308 Winchester... is exactly Wyoming Arms.
If you are not actively engaging EVERY enemy you encounter... you are allowing another to fight for you... and that is cowardice... plain and simple.
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 12,115
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 12,115 |
What's this crap about .458 and Africa??? You went to Africa with ALTERED AR-15... SINGLE SHOT AR-15s Are fugging kidding me... You are Bill Wilson... Master Gunsmith and FFL... and you went to Africa with single shot AR-15s. Good God man... Think on the depth and breath of that stupidity. FUGG... Toxic poster. Litterally the worst of the worst on the internet. If you want to post here, Bill, you better be ready to SMASH this kind of poster. It's easy (because he is a dumbazz) but not for everyone because he won't ever stop being TOXIC.
John Burns
I have all the sources.
They can't stop the signal.
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Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 21,777
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 21,777 |
No reverse engineering went on, we only changed a diameter dimension (.533" to .537" below the neck) so factory new unsized Starline .536" cases would fit the chamber!!! THAT fugged SAMMI... as well as all of the legwork of Marty and SBR. Come clean on all of the malfeasance on 2013
If you are not actively engaging EVERY enemy you encounter... you are allowing another to fight for you... and that is cowardice... plain and simple.
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Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 21,777
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 21,777 |
What's this crap about .458 and Africa??? You went to Africa with ALTERED AR-15... SINGLE SHOT AR-15s Are fugging kidding me... You are Bill Wilson... Master Gunsmith and FFL... and you went to Africa with single shot AR-15s. Good God man... Think on the depth and breath of that stupidity. FUGG... Toxic poster. Litterally the worst of the worst on the internet. If you want to post here, Bill, you better be ready to SMASH this kind of poster. It's easy (because he is a dumbazz) but not for everyone because he won't ever stop being TOXIC. Nice of you to step in fat boy... Bill Wilson NEEDS YOU... Without you and your bullchit... Wilson Combat is nothing?
If you are not actively engaging EVERY enemy you encounter... you are allowing another to fight for you... and that is cowardice... plain and simple.
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Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 21,777
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 21,777 |
I actually respect WC in everything BUT the .458 SOCOM fiasco...
That... is CRAP and will not stand.
Wyoming Arms and Jeff Lisey (don't Google)... different topic for a different day.
If you are not actively engaging EVERY enemy you encounter... you are allowing another to fight for you... and that is cowardice... plain and simple.
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 12,115
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 12,115 |
No reverse engineering went on, we only changed a diameter dimension (.533" to .537" below the neck) so factory new unsized Starline .536" cases would fit the chamber!!! THAT fugged SAMMI... as well as all of the legwork of Marty and SBR. Come clean on all of the malfeasance on 2013 Toxic poster whines.
John Burns
I have all the sources.
They can't stop the signal.
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Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 21,777
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 21,777 |
The link above was a huge call-out of the the whole reamer debacle... Marty invented the chambering in 2000... MUCH skulduggery has occurred since. http://teppojutsu.com/458faq.htmlI have paid a royalty to Marty for every .458 SOCOM chambering I have built. I stand by my original post below. I strongly recommend against a WC .458 SOCOM barrel. It is not a legit reamer (reverse engineered).
MUCH BETTER OPTIONS/companies if you seek that caliber... ------------------------------------- In addition... I support Tromix... Tony permitted me to buy a .375 SOCOM reamer (his invention and rights are protected) because we were making bolt guns et al (something he did not want to mess with). Tony, Thomas and Tycen have my respect. Wilson Combat does not (regarding the .458 SOCOM).
If you are not actively engaging EVERY enemy you encounter... you are allowing another to fight for you... and that is cowardice... plain and simple.
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