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#17821470 11/20/22
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I’ve experienced cold welding on ammunition in the past. I figured out that tumbling brass clean with stainless pins was causing it on ammunition that I loaded that would sit for several years before firing. That being said, I am getting ready to load 100 rounds of 270 for my brother and nephew. The only cases I had were pretty dingy and had a couple green spots, so I gave them a bath in the pins. The two of them are hunters. And don’t shoot very often. Probably ten rounds a year between checking zero, and hunting. I know I could seat them a little long, and seat deeper down the road to break the weld. But I just want to hand this stuff off and be done with it. So what can I put inside the necks to prevent the weld, but not contaminate the powder in the case?

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I use powdered graphite inside the case necks. I haven’t experienced “bullet weld”…….yet! Not saying that it can’t happen.

Some (maybe many) powders are coated in graphite! memtb


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New brass gets necks dipped in Imperial/Redding media with graphite and wiped off the outside after seating a bullet.

SS pins aren't a good way to go as you have learned.


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I would deprive the cases, clean then with the pins, then lube and resize them, then tumble them in walnut to clean the lube off. It’s extra steps, but I don’t worry about cold weld.

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I'd like to know if commercial loaded ammo is treated for anything with brand new clean brass. I'd bet pretty highly not.,

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In the ammo factories I've visited (which include the largest U.S. manufacturer), no the new brass isn't "treated" with anything....


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Originally Posted by ldholton
I'd like to know if commercial loaded ammo is treated for anything with brand new clean brass. I'd bet pretty highly not.,


I asked one of the big ammo producers (Federal, IIRC) if they take any measures to prevent cold weld. The response I received read something like "huh...what's that?"

I've though of things I might do to prevent it when I've tumbled in stainless pins (which I do every third or fourth loading, I guess). One is to dip the necks in Turtle Was Zip Wax and stand them on their mouths for a few days to dry. I have no idea whether it would work but I may give it a try.

Another is to treat jacketed bullets the same way.

I may get around to it someday.


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The graphite is a good move
Some say just leave the sutt in the necks works
Can’t see it hurting anything
Reread thread
Higginez steered you straight
Good stuff
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I have started using Neo Lube #2 in the necks over the last several months. It seems to be the way to go.


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Originally Posted by Mule Deer
In the ammo factories I've visited (which include the largest U.S. manufacturer), no the new brass isn't "treated" with anything....
that's honestly what I figured. this cold weld subject has never come up to the last I don't know what five or six years. think of how many hundred-year-old rounds of military surplus has been shot without issue. some people like to use will use the example of a lee factory crimp die . this holding the bullet in the case firmer than otherwise would be. some use the argument it will help accuracy some don't believe it but some do it in with no issue. I know the trick of seating them too far out and then pushing them down for better accuracy from the bench and all. really good bench press shooters load that day on site to the conditions they are in. I tumble in pins Dawn soap let me shine the whole deal that everybody starts to complain about sometimes. I've got ammo that sit around for quite a while after that and I've never had a single issue. my opinion this is an issue only for those that look for extra issues..

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ldholton,

Oh, cold-welding exists. Have seen it a number of times with old military ammo--and sometimes old commercial hunting ammo. Usually (but not always) the bullets can be broken free by seating them a little deeper.

It's one reason I quit cleaning brass many years ago, unless for some reason it absolutely needed it. The slight amount of powder fouling left inside the neck apparently prevents cold-welding.


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Originally Posted by RiverRider
Originally Posted by ldholton
I'd like to know if commercial loaded ammo is treated for anything with brand new clean brass. I'd bet pretty highly not.,


I asked one of the big ammo producers (Federal, IIRC) if they take any measures to prevent cold weld. The response I received read something like "huh...what's that?"

I've though of things I might do to prevent it when I've tumbled in stainless pins (which I do every third or fourth loading, I guess). One is to dip the necks in Turtle Was Zip Wax and stand them on their mouths for a few days to dry. I have no idea whether it would work but I may give it a try.
Just add the Turtlewax to your cleaning/tumbling solution. You will get enough of a coating to slow down oxidation. Turtlewax also contains detergents, so it helps clean the brass too.


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Inconsistent neck tension is where precision suffers. Crimping and variable “cold welding” are rather different in that regard.

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oh I believe cold welding per se exist I think it's a poor choice of words to describe but. what does it really affect as the big question except for the most precise loads...
if it's such a bad problem why do all the big ammo manufacturers not address such not to mention the companies that do professional reloading for resale?. and has been admitted on here many times by many big names it's getting harder and harder to produce better ammo than many factory types of ammo for certain applications..

Last edited by ldholton; 11/21/22.
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ldholton,

Here's a post from a few years ago, posted by "dan oz," a Campfire member from Australia who knows a thing or two about metallurgy:

"Actually, bullets can indeed weld themselves to cases. It is a quite well-documented phenomenon, an example of diffusion bonding. Diffusion bonding has industrial applications too - I've done some work with these. You really just need two pieces of material of fairly similar composition (such as a gilding metal jacket and a cartridge brass case neck) in good intimate contact without anything between them (ie both nice and clean), a bit of time. Temperature also helps, but it is a solid-state process. Atoms essentially wander about, and end up crossing the boundary (if conditions are right) and taking up positions in the crystal lattice of the other piece. If enough atoms do this the boundary becomes sufficiently blurred to make quite a good bond. It is not a corrosion process."


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Originally Posted by Mule Deer
ldholton,

Here's a post from a few years ago, posted by "dan oz," a Campfire member from Australia who knows a thing or two about metallurgy:

"Actually, bullets can indeed weld themselves to cases. It is a quite well-documented phenomenon, an example of diffusion bonding. Diffusion bonding has industrial applications too - I've done some work with these. You really just need two pieces of material of fairly similar composition (such as a gilding metal jacket and a cartridge brass case neck) in good intimate contact without anything between them (ie both nice and clean), a bit of time. Temperature also helps, but it is a solid-state process. Atoms essentially wander about, and end up crossing the boundary (if conditions are right) and taking up positions in the crystal lattice of the other piece. If enough atoms do this the boundary becomes sufficiently blurred to make quite a good bond. It is not a corrosion process."
respectfully I said above I believe there is such a thing as cold weld , but the real question at hand is if it really affects that much in ammunition why do ammo producers and not address a process to prevent this.

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Probably because most ammo producers know that 99% of the ammo they produce will be fired within 5 years.


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Originally Posted by drop_point
I have started using Neo Lube #2 in the necks over the last several months. It seems to be the way to go.

Interesting, I just ordered some of that to try out last evening after watching this guys video.



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Originally Posted by Mule Deer
ldholton,

Here's a post from a few years ago, posted by "dan oz," a Campfire member from Australia who knows a thing or two about metallurgy:

"Actually, bullets can indeed weld themselves to cases. It is a quite well-documented phenomenon, an example of diffusion bonding. Diffusion bonding has industrial applications too - I've done some work with these. You really just need two pieces of material of fairly similar composition (such as a gilding metal jacket and a cartridge brass case neck) in good intimate contact without anything between them (ie both nice and clean), a bit of time. Temperature also helps, but it is a solid-state process. Atoms essentially wander about, and end up crossing the boundary (if conditions are right) and taking up positions in the crystal lattice of the other piece. If enough atoms do this the boundary becomes sufficiently blurred to make quite a good bond. It is not a corrosion process."

Yes, and once you know how it occurs it is not hard to work out ways to avoid it. One of course is to use the rounds up as fast as you load them. Another is to ensure that there's something between the two surfaces. It doesn't need to be much, a bit of wax or lube on the bullet or inside the case neck for example (I wouldn't be surprised to find that many factory loads already have this, even if only as a process artifact) or the technique which I've found works well (and which I note MD also applies) of leaving the soot in the case necks. I don't bother tumbling cases, and this is one of the reasons. Another is that the dark brown patina they gradually acquire is actually slightly protective. This also has the happy benefit of avoiding unnecessary work, which rather appeals to me.

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"This also has the happy benefit of avoiding unnecessary work, which rather appeals to me."

Yep!

On the thread about my new book, Gun Gack IV, MtnBoomer mentions how much handloading went into creating the data. Unlike many handloaders I don't do it to get away from the hassles of the workaday world. Instead it's part of my job, and I want to get as much done as efficiently as possible. Over the years I eventually eliminated a lot of unnecessary stuff, including case-cleaning--which also had side-benefits. (Also learned how to do some of the necessary stuff faster, but that's another subject....)


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