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Berger says their Hunting bullets are lighter jacketed than their target bullets. That seems rather counter intuitive to me. Wouldn’t you want the tougher bullet for hunting? I don’t shoot Bergers (yet, ?) but I found this surprising. What’s the logic? I always thought target (Sierra Matchking and the like) and match bullets were not suitable for hunting because they were too frangible and now Berger says their hunting bullets are more frangible? Confusing

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Heavier jacket with the Berger will more likely pencil the animal


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From what I understand, the original Berger target bullet was being used by hunters, and they were reporting fantastic results. The bullet had a thinner jacket. The thinner jacketed bullet when shot by target shooters, who generally shoot bullets at higher velocities, would sometimes come apart in flight.

Berger thickened the jacket up to improved their target bullets.

The original Berger target bullet is now their Hunting bullet.


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Originally Posted by rcamuglia
From what I understand, the original Berger target bullet was being used by hunters, and they were reporting fantastic results. The bullet had a thinner jacket. The thinner jacketed bullet when shot by target shooters, who generally shoot bullets at higher velocities, would sometimes come apart in flight.

Berger thickened the jacket up to improved their target bullets.

The original Berger target bullet is now their Hunting bullet.
Interesting. Makes sense, but most hunters I know want velocity too. Are the hunting bullets still known to come apart mid flight?

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Originally Posted by SDHNTR
Originally Posted by rcamuglia
From what I understand, the original Berger target bullet was being used by hunters, and they were reporting fantastic results. The bullet had a thinner jacket. The thinner jacketed bullet when shot by target shooters, who generally shoot bullets at higher velocities, would sometimes come apart in flight.

Berger thickened the jacket up to improved their target bullets.

The original Berger target bullet is now their Hunting bullet.
Interesting. Makes sense, but most hunters I know want velocity too. Are the hunting bullets still known to come apart mid flight?

The concept is a heavy for caliber bullet to maximize B.C. therefore slower speeds


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It's not the linear velocity but the rotational velocity that matters. And IME zooking mid-air hasn't been a problem using Berger hunting bullets at high rotational velocity. I haven't pushed them to hyper-velocity in fast twist rifles, but just under 3000 fps in 8" twist barrels hasn't caused problems.

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I have repeatedly had Berger target bullets fail to expand in a 1 gallon water jug. I would heed their recommendations for usage based upon my limited experience.

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Originally Posted by Jordan Smith
It's not the linear velocity but the rotational velocity that matters. And IME zooking mid-air hasn't been a problem using Berger hunting bullets at high rotational velocity. I haven't pushed them to hyper-velocity in fast twist rifles, but just under 3000 fps in 8" twist barrels hasn't caused problems.
Yes, I’m talking .300 prc velocities of 2900-3000 ish fps out of an 8 twist.

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I hunt with the berger hybrid targets in 105s in my 243. I have killed truck loads of critters big and small with them, and they perform exceptionally. Massive expansion and damage. I did shoot 1 coyote last spring that was a pencil through.Coyote still tipped over, just took a second. The bullets have been very accurate, and have given a good combo of good penetration, and lots of expansion and damage.

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Pin drill in the hollow point to make sure they aren’t clogged and I’ve never had a Berger pencil on me.

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Originally Posted by rcamuglia
From what I understand, the original Berger target bullet was being used by hunters, and they were reporting fantastic results. The bullet had a thinner jacket. The thinner jacketed bullet when shot by target shooters, who generally shoot bullets at higher velocities, would sometimes come apart in flight.

Berger thickened the jacket up to improved their target bullets.

The original Berger target bullet is now their Hunting bullet.

Your understanding is spot on I remember when Berger did this, I was a member of Long-range Huntin .com when Berger made a post saying as much.



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in my 257 Weatherby mag the 115 Berger hunter bullets is not a good bullet on bigger whitetail bucks i will never use them again in a faster cartridge rifle, Hammer bullets seem to be better so far on a bigger whitetail buck and actually the Hammer Hunter bullets were more accurate too in our 257 Weather mag. Brux barrel 10 twist #4 contour rifles. i am not impressed with Berger hunting bullets on game animals.


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So stick with the hunting versions is the safe bet huh? Even though some seem to use the target versions for hunting…

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Originally Posted by MallardAddict
Pin drill in the hollow point to make sure they aren’t clogged and I’ve never had a Berger pencil on me.
That is very likely what happened on my one pencil through. Took a shell out of my pocket, and that hole may have been filled with lint. That and it went between ribs coming, and going...

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Interesting comment Pete....Several of us use the 25 cal 115 hunting bullet in our 257s to take a few animals with excellent results and many DRTs:

I have taken 12 coues wt and one antelope to date. The other guys have taken another 15 coues, 4 mule deer, 6 elk another antelope and 2 javelina.

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Originally Posted by SDHNTR
Originally Posted by rcamuglia
From what I understand, the original Berger target bullet was being used by hunters, and they were reporting fantastic results. The bullet had a thinner jacket. The thinner jacketed bullet when shot by target shooters, who generally shoot bullets at higher velocities, would sometimes come apart in flight.

Berger thickened the jacket up to improved their target bullets.

The original Berger target bullet is now their Hunting bullet.
Interesting. Makes sense, but most hunters I know want velocity too. Are the hunting bullets still known to come apart mid flight?

The issue was more about the rate of fire in some types of Hi Power/Across the Course Matches.

I have used the target jacket 6.5mm 130gr AR Hybrid a lot on elk and deer in 6.5mm CM and it works great.

Keep in mind that bullet has a good sized void in the nose which seems to help with consistent expansion.


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Originally Posted by jwp475
Originally Posted by rcamuglia
From what I understand, the original Berger target bullet was being used by hunters, and they were reporting fantastic results. The bullet had a thinner jacket. The thinner jacketed bullet when shot by target shooters, who generally shoot bullets at higher velocities, would sometimes come apart in flight.

Berger thickened the jacket up to improved their target bullets.

The original Berger target bullet is now their Hunting bullet.

Your understanding is spot on I remember when Berger did this, I was a member of Long-range Huntin .com when Berger made a post saying as much.

This is true with a twist, when Berger first came out with their VLD's they had an ultra thin J4 jacket. I bought several hundred .308" 210gr VLD and .243" 105gr VLD. I never had the 210's blow-up coming out of the barrel but would blow-up on impact with very little or no penetration. The 105VLD's would blow-up 5 out of 10 shot's coming out of the barrel........I later found out this was more a cause of a Pac-Nor 3 groove barrel, they worked fine in 5 and 6 groove barrels.
These bullet's were not on the market very long, guessing maybe a month or two ????????
I had discussions with Mule Deer about these bullets and sent him the rest of what I had left several years ago that he was going to test, but between writing books and moose hunting I don't think he has gotten around to it yet.
I bought a BUNCH of the very next lot of 210gr VLD's and I am still shooting them to this day, most accurate bullet I have ever used in 300WM

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Originally Posted by Azshooter
Interesting comment Pete....Several of us use the 25 cal 115 hunting bullet in our 257s to take a few animals with excellent results and many DRTs:

I have taken 12 coues wt and one antelope to date. The other guys have taken another 15 coues, 4 mule deer, 6 elk another antelope and 2 javelina.


maybe i got some poor bullets from Berger bullets ? the whitetail bucks i shot were big deer ? i don`t care if you like Berger bullets , i now use 103 gr. Hammer Bullets at a speed of 3700 FPS ,my old Ruger #1 shoots much better with Hammer bullets too so far had 2 bang flop animals one shot kills. the buck dressed 193 lbs. this year , that`s about the size of 2 or 3 Coues deer . son and i shot 3 big bucks with Berger bullets they dressed 185 lbs. ,210 lbs. and 225 lbs. all were weighed the same day these bucks were shot over 2 years. we now both use Hammer bullets we like the vapor trail when we pull the trigger > speed kills . >you wanna buy some Berger HUnting bullets ?


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Originally Posted by JohnBurns
Originally Posted by SDHNTR
Originally Posted by rcamuglia
From what I understand, the original Berger target bullet was being used by hunters, and they were reporting fantastic results. The bullet had a thinner jacket. The thinner jacketed bullet when shot by target shooters, who generally shoot bullets at higher velocities, would sometimes come apart in flight.

Berger thickened the jacket up to improved their target bullets.

The original Berger target bullet is now their Hunting bullet.
Interesting. Makes sense, but most hunters I know want velocity too. Are the hunting bullets still known to come apart mid flight?

The issue was more about the rate of fire in some types of Hi Power/Across the Course Matches.

I have used the target jacket 6.5mm 130gr AR Hybrid a lot on elk and deer in 6.5mm CM and it works great.

Keep in mind that bullet has a good sized void in the nose which seems to help with consistent expansion.
John in your experience , how does the Ar hydrid compare to the Regular 130 gr VLD hunting bullet? I have no complaints with the VLD but the Ar hydrid seems to be more available and it is good to have options.....

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I've used the 215g 308 hybrid target on lots of game and it works incredibly well. Even on an antelope at 550 yards expansion was obvious.

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