Home Forums Hunting & Shooting AR and Tactical Rifles Forged, Cast, or Milled?

Personal attacks are not part of an intelligent discussion!!

This was the original question I asked you.
Why I cant find you more than 5 years back??
You have done a fine dance or jig around the question??

This is a quote of yours. Show us where you found this?? Show us any proof from anybody that makes barrels by the hammer forged method you have described?? Show us the hydraulic squeezer that makes tubes into Remington or Winchester rifle barrels.

"Most of the firearms manufacturers used hammer-forged barrels. A metal tube is slid over a mandrel, with the rifling formed on it. The metal tube is hydraulically squeezed down onto the mandrel, leaving the rifling embedded. This type of barrel is what you would find on a Remington or Winchester, as well as many others. This process is cost-effective where very high volumes of the same barrel contour is needed"

Or just admit you were winging it and didn't really know what you were talking about.

Gone

I quit posting and just kept reading.... What exactly are you after here? Simple question could net a simple answer.

FWIW I've got 2 EA lowers, one oly,one bushy, one armalite, one colt, and probably 6-8 rra. Had one PWA that I sold some years back.

Most all of them literally have had 3-6 barrels through them so far. Thats 15-30K or more rounds. I've had to swage the oly lower but only because it was a bit large to start with when we dropped a Milazzo trigger into it years ago. It has not worn since. I've had to work on the holes on the Colt also.

Thats a lot of total rounds, and not many issues.

As to factory rifle barrels, the SUM I've shot and had have been as good as any wilson etc.... others claim even more accurate but they've been good and comparable for me.

And as to factory barrels.... I have no proof, but have heard it from a few folks I consider to be reliable sources that a barrel like a 700 or 77, the company has less than 50 bucks in it total. I know that Ruger has replaced a couple of barrels totally for free for folks I know, they ain't putting 300 dollar barrels on the guns thats for sure.

All that being said, I'm pretty friggin simple, looks don't matter, accuracy does, and I've seen accuracy thats unbelievable from every lower I've used, as long as the assembly was done correctly, like Dtech, WOP etc.... its accurate. .5 moa or less for sure with the right nut behind the butt and right load in the chamber. So I go with target results. Got em from every reciever so far.

As to Dtech being around, my main smith is WOP, and John has said that Mike is good and around for 20 some years IIRC, IE more than 5. And to me thats like God saying to me, yes Jesus is my son.... Not everyone was on the net when it came out.... doesn't mean a thing. I still know some top armorers that don't advertise, don't do email, etc..... How long you are on the net means nothing, and much less since Al Gore invented the dmn thing... Don't read into the internet whats not there.

Now did you have a real, short, concise question we should answer?

Regards, Jeff

If he doesn't respond politely to that, Jeff, he's hopeless.

Dteck made the statement Olympic barrels are great.
Gone quoted something Dteck also said that was completely wrong about hammer forged barrels. I take it, he means if the guy was wrong about hammer forging then his statement about Olympic barrels could also be just as wrong.

Rusky, What was it that I said that "was completely wrong about hammer forged barrels"??

That is what I was trying to get out of him.

The quote that he dug up and posted was only part of a post on another forum. It was in response to someone that had asked: "How do they get the rifling into the barrel?" My reponse covered hammer-forging, cut-rifling, and button-rifling. None of it was done in any great detail or high technical level.

The process of squeezing a metal tube, with hydraulic impact, over a mandrel that has the rifling on it, and ending up with a barrel that is contoured and rifled is tough to imagine, but that is exactly what is done, and many of the major gun makers are still using this process.

I said Oly barrels are good barrels. I a have used around 2000 of them by now, along with many other barrels. I am now chambering my own barrels from Shilen blanks. I get better accuracy out of the barrels that I make from the Shilen blank, but that's not comparing apples to apples. I have used Wilson blanks as well. When I hand-chambered Wilson barrels, I got good results, but even that is not comparing apples to apples. What I have said is that, in my opinion, the Oly SUM barrel is the best, off the shelf, AR barrel you can buy. That is, that they are more consistently accurate than a stock DPMS, Bushmaster, ArmaLite etc. stock barrel. Do some DPMS, RRA, Bushmaster barrels shoot great? Of course they do!

Here is the whole post. What does it change?? You wrote this and then found out how a hammer forged barrel was made. Then you try to put a spin on it.

You said Oly barrels were great. Not good but great. You dont know what your talking about when it comes to barrels. Has a Oly barrel won any major matche ever??

"Most of the firearms manufacturers used hammer-forged barrels. A metal tube is slid over a mandrel, with the rifling formed on it. The metal tube is hydraulically squeezed down onto the mandrel, leaving the rifling embedded. This type of barrel is what you would find on a Remington or Winchester, as well as many others. This process is cost-effective where very high volumes of the same barrel contour is needed.

Custom barrels are either cut-rifled or button-rifled. The cut-rifled barrels fall into several categories depending on how they are cut. The cut-rifled barrels that I use quite a bit of are broach-cut. A broach is pulled through the bore, cutting the grooves at one time. The button-rifled barrels have a football-shaped, solid carbide "button" pulled or pushed through the bore. The "button" has a mirror image of the grooves ground into it, with the appropriate twist. As the "button" is forced through the barrel, the "button" extrudes the barrel material, forming the grooves.

What a tempest in a teapot...

-jeff

Oly has won a state championship highpower match.... Thats major enough I"d say.

The other interesting part is that Dtech rifles shoot extremely well... I"d say that says more than enough also.

Knowing how and doing are different things... The engineers that knew how to put together the corvette were great in their own minds, yet had they known more than a simple book education, no one would be forced to remove the engine from the mounting blocks to change out SPARK PLUGS.....

I"m still missing your point.

Jeff

I would just like to see someone actually point out what they think is wrong about the post. I used the term "forced" while referring to the button-rifled method, because some are pulled, and some are pushed. I guess I still don't see what is incorrect about my description.

Are you disputing how or if the hammer-forged barrels are made?

I think, Dtech, that it's your use of the term "hydraulic" that has him comin' at you like this.

I don't have a dog in this fight, but from where I sit, it's pretty silly.

-jeff

Jeff, that may very well be. I tried to clarify that point twice. Once by stating that the original post was not meant to be of high a technical level, and second, to clarify that the hammer-forging machine that I had read quite a bit about used hydraulic impact to do the work. If that's the beef, then we are really splitting hairs. I quite honestly don't know how the current machines are powered. Doesn't really matter, the end result is the same, they are "hammer forged"

Hell if its coming down to hydraulics as an issue, I say TROLL....

Jeff

Well there's the fact that you referred to the barrel blank as a "tube", too I know that you were just trying to keep it simple, but apparently Gonhuntinnow is a nitpicker of the highest order. Maybe he doesn't think Oly arms uses a pulled broach either, based on his use of bold characters? But he'd be wrong, as:



Personally, since he's so keen on your bona fides, I'd not bother to respond to him until he's disclosed his own background.

His background is apparent from his posts and the good Mr. Rost has defined that aptly.

Scott, I have personally pulled both broaches and buttons and made my own barrels in someone else's shop. I know how those barrels are produced.

The hammer-forging is a different story. I have seen video of it, and the reason I said "tube" is that the operator grabbed a "tube" out of a bin and slid it over the mandrel. This "tube was, just judging from the video, about 1-1/2" in diameter and only about 14" long with a hole that looked to be about 3/4" in diameter. The operator pushed the button and in seconds the barrel was profiled and had it's rifling. I don't know what I could call it but a "tube" It looked like a real thick-walled pipe.

I also saw a video of barrels being made for Uzi. The "tubes" they were using were much shorter, perhaps 7" long.

Now to be perfectly honest, probably 20 or 25 years ago when my father told me that was how Remington made their barrels, I called "BS". I was wrong. At the time, the whole process didn't sound like it was feasible.

You guys have patiently tried and tried. I, too, say troll.

He's got nothing worthwhile to say.

Seems like we had this conversation before, but maybe it was someone else or using a different name.

I made my point. Most got it. Some didnt. A troll I aint.

most=you

go away

If you couldn't tell, I'm with you on this, in that I can see why you'd refer to it as a "tube". Since I have zero experience hammer forging barrels, I couldn't tell you if that's the actual term used by those that produce barrels or not. All I can do is speak from my machining background, and say that off the top of my head, I'd refer to the item in question as a "blank". If pressed, then I'd make some sort of reference to the manner in which the bore was taken to it's final dimension as in "bored blank", "reamed blank" etc. But for person A to put the screws to person B for using "tube" says more to me about the former individual than the latter.

For what its worth, I literally cut tons upon tons of 6061, 2024, and 7075 back when I was a CNC machinist/programmer. Mostly billet with some near net forged. Come to think of it, there was quite a bit of cast that I worked with as well. I haven't read a single word of yours regarding receiver materials that doesn't ring true to my own experiences.

Regards,
Scott

Too verbose