Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Alaska Snow Machines.

I'm going to buy a new one when i get moved to Idaho.

I don't need a 'speed machine' been there done that uh-plenty. I won't be climbing mountains, jumping, no high speed cornering just a machine to check traps/hunt/scout on.
Good gas mileage is a plus and reliable since I almost always hunt alone.

Plan on buying a new machine, any recommendations from you folks that have been around them?
Also not going to spend $18-$20K

I haven't paid much attention to the utility machines, but "new" and $18-20k seems to be the norm these days. New sled prices are nuts!

I bought a 2020 model in March of '20, as an end-of-season closeout, just before the whole world went into shutdown mode. I got it for considerably less than MSRP. At the time, I thought it was a pretty dumb purchase, since my 2015 only had 1000 miles on it, and I just didn't ride much. In hindsight, the purchase looks like a savvy investment, and I could probably sell my machine for more than I paid for it.

All of my local friends ride Ski-doo, and since I know considerably less about sleds than they do, I buy whatever they buy. I have a friend in MN that's a die-hard Arctic Cat rider, and he has been since we were in high school. If I rode the trails with him in MN, I would probably ride whatever he rides. Both sets of friends do agree on one thing, though, avoid Polaris!

I'm not a 4-stroke fan, when it comes to sleds anyway. If I was looking for a utility sled, I would choose a Ski-doo model (Tundra, Skandic, or Expedition) with a 600 E-Tec engine. They are easy to pull-start, so I'm not worried about the electric start/battery not working when it's butt-cold. From what I'm told, the 600 E-Tec gets great mileage, and they seem to last forever.

The E-Tec outboards were horrible, < just saying.
I'd have a hard time buying a Ski-doo after owning one of their jet-skis.

I read on some Sled forum about Polaris,, > "don't" is the word.

The tundra with the 600 ACE is a good machine for what you are describing. The current tundra is about 2X the machine that the old tundra was in most every way, if you have experience with them. There was a time that I would have said the same thing as Dan about 2 vs 4 stroke (and I did), but that was several thousand miles ago. We run 2 SWT skandics with the V800 motor, and I've watched another one put on over 12K rough miles before it gave up the ghost. The skandic is big and heavy, and if you get it stuck you best have some tricks up your sleeve, but they do things that I've not seen a lot of sleds do. They get around 20mpg, and will pull like nothing else. If you are going to be hauling weight, that or the bearcat is probably the way to go. Otherwise, the tundra can get even better mileage, is lighter, way more nimble, and the LT version still has tons of flotation.

These look like what I would need maybe?
It seems that nobody on Utube uses a sled like I plan to use one, every video is about speed, carving, climbing a mountain to 10K' etc. .
Compact 7/8th size sled, 400cc 2 cycle 65mph 400lbs. it's plenty fast for my needs.

https://arcticcat.txtsv.com/snowmobile/trail-utility/blast-lt#model-blast-lt-4000

You'll get no arguments from me about the E-Tec outboards, but I have seen LOTS of miles put on 600, 800, and 850 E-Tec sleds that I don't paint them with the same brush. As far as sleds go, the E-tecs seem to be proven engines.

cwh2, how are the 4-strokes for pull-starting? I worry about those little AGM batteries crapping out in the extreme cold (might not have to worry about that as much in Idaho?), and not being able to pull-start a 4-stroke. Maybe my fears are unfounded, though?

All are overpriced, over tech'd, and overweight.

It's mind-boggling SkiDoo can produce an light lower powered utility sled that's reliable, light and simple to work on. What really would be needed is an updated version of the Elan that's slightly longer or wider tracked. Doesn't need to go fast but needs to float well with an lighter footprint and not smell like gas when you ride it. I understand that not too much to ask for but these companies are going to sell what you really don't "need" and it's going to be complicated. I don't think there's really an truly good solution with today's emissions regulation.

Run a 156x16" tundra or a 156x24" skandic for a bit, and I doubt you'll think so fondly of the elan.

That sled above doesn't look that bad. Never seen one though. I have little arctic cat experience and it isn't good, so that would be a a tough sell for me, but that doesn't mean much.

+1

Blew the chain case on a Polaris that had 600 or so miles on it and had to walk a long ways, some things are hard to forgive and forget.

They don't pull start. But, too beeee faaaiiir..... Neither does your car, which is more reliable than any sled you ever rode.:)

I've started the 800 at -35 after an all night soak. That isn't that cold by some standards but it's what I've seen.

Let me know when you get to Idaho. Pepsi, Barcalounger, chips and dips.

Before I bought my Bearcat 7000 I was trying to find a VK540 for sale.

Polaris .. is never a good idea in Alaska ...

ATV 4 wheeler, 6 wheeler, SxS or snow machine ....

The horror stories are mind numbing

Here's another grand Polaris tale.

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbt...omesteader-survives-3-weeks#Post14456600

It seems like snow-machines are low on the list of reliable vehicles.
It's always a big topic on sled forums.

Note to self,, never be out without real survival gear.

10-4 Backroads

I bought a Skidoo Expedition Sport new in 2020 for a very similar need to what OP stated. It has the 600 ACE 4 stroke and it's great on gas, extremely quiet and smooth. No issues at all, other than a bad battery last year.

I use the sled to get to my cabin and haul gear/game and couldn't ask for a better machine.

When it comes to recreational use, though, it's not great. It'll get stuck in powder, it's sorta heavy, it's not quick or fast and it's basically like driving an old station wagon with fake wood paneling on the side.

Second Remson.

We are looking for much the same. Check out the Skidoo E- Sport. Looks like they run about $12K new. Local Yamaha dealer thinks highly of them, and is buying one for his wife. About 450 lbs, and fairly bomb-proof mechanically according to him. I'm not sure if modern snow machines come much lighter.

Easiest way to get heavy sled (like our 1100) unstuck is often to turn it on it's side, kick stow under the track, pack as well as possible, roll back on it's track and try it. Just in case someone doesn't know this trick- I was just shown it last year, dumb -ol me....

I'm not getting rid of my 1993 Yamaha Bravo (no longer manufactured) any time soon, I can tell you that! I moved it with the first snowfall from summer storage a couple montyhs ago. Went out yesterday at -7, got the ice, snow and tarp off it, started first pull.

If you can find one of those in good shape yet, buy it. IMO, the best sled for what we are talking about ever made. Only a 36" width, so kinda tippy, but good in the woods- mine is a long track, not so good in the woods.... 40 is about top speed.

For ES machines, carry an XP10 battery pack inside your parka. I did for the AC 1100 turbo (no pull start equipped, even), when we had it in the Arctic. Never needed it tho. Mostly we use it now to charge cell phones and i-pad at the remote cabins if we don't want to run a generator. Has a light too.

Just looked at some of the low-mid level Ski Doo's , the 600cc , 2-cycle efi @ $10K looks good. Boy-Howdy that 4-stroke engine sure adds a lot of weight.

Any idea of the MPG a 600cc 2-cycle machine would get? It has a 9.5gal. fuel tank, wondering what the range is?

The AC 400cc engine is based on the 800cc twin cylinder that is supposedly a reliable engine.
I can't find a bad word about the ArCat, Blast ,, but who knows...?

Mike,

That's an insane price on that machine. It won't be ideal for trapping and wood chores either.

I think of where you're coming from, and where you're going. You won't have the many years of mechanical knowledge around snowmachines.

You won't encounter extreme enough cold to worry too much about 4 stroke reliability.

In the off season, look for a basic 600 ace tundra used or new.

The pogos won't catch brush, and the low-speed torque and clutching in fkn awesome.

The quietness and fuel economy can't be matched.

Small, maneuverable woods bombers are what u need for trapping.

Somebody mentioned Elans. Yep,they were as simple as they come. I've owned a few of them. They are so simple, it only takes a couple days to rebuild the engine, chain case and carb.

Fun is an understatement.

Putting on a fkn seat cover was the hardest part:

Las mentioned a bravo. Yep, they're awesome little woods bombers. When I was working in the water treatment plant up in kobuk, I sure saw a lotta bravos up there, especially with fuel prices above $12 a gallon.

Fun fact: if you put a bravo up for sale, it will end up with a bush pilot or cargo pilot in less than 48 hours........

I'm not a brand loyalist, I've owned all brands. But you'll see me bashing yammys off trees, breaking trail with a tractor trailer tire.

One overlooked gem, is the "in between a bravo and vk 540"

It's called the enticer 2. Bombproof 408cc fan cooled twin Ceramic coated pistons, can haul heavy and not burn up motor. As light as a tundra r, bomb-proof chain case/w reverse gear. The ORIGINAL pogo doesn't catch brush.

Tekei carb, with a secret survival weapon: two venturis for the two pistons. Can set left-side piston slightly richer to keep it cooler when towing hard.

Tekei choke circuit so strong, will pull start at 50 below zero, don't even need a primer button.

Upgraded to 1.5 inch paddle track and wider plastic skis, I invite ANY fkn blowhard with the latest/greatest $14,000-$20,000 ski doo to see if they can follow me in the woods. Your cowling plastics will be in pieces

Ol’ Mike, have you ever considered putting tracks on an ATV. I have gone the sled route for hunting lions and hate the reliability of sleds in general. I suck at maintenance and it seems like anything that doesn’t get used regularly is a PITA when it is time to use it (outboards, snowmachines, rototillers, log splitters, etc).

I went to a fuel injected 700 grizzly on tracks and my Skandic is now for sale. The ability to use it year round is a big plus to me and being fuel injected it has been good about starting in the cold. My buddies carbed 660 flat won’t start below zero.

I have a tracked Yamaha Rhino as well and it has good utility but the quad seems easier to maneuver and I can get two on a trailer.

The main downside is they absolutely drink fuel with the tracks.







If I had consistent snow conditions the sled would make a lot of sense but I live in the windy part of Montana and have a lot of bare ground, to drifts and back to bare ground type situations.

What part of Idaho? Idaho is like 10 different states in one when it comes to terrain and weather. A tundra is a great work sled, but not so much on big pulls....and depending on where you are, big pulls might be unavoidable.

[quote=ol_mike]Just looked at some of the low-mid level Ski Doo's , the 600cc , 2-cycle efi @ $10K looks good.

''Boy-Howdy that 4-stroke engine sure adds a lot of weight.''




My comment on the 4-stroke weight, has to be a typo [error] Ski-Doo website shows 575lbs. for 600efi 2 stroke,, 620lbs. for the 900cc 4 stroke, & ""698lbs.""" for the 600cc 4 stroke. Very very likely 598lbs.
Saw that last night but didn't look at the 900cc 4 stroke weight, I thought WOW 123lbs. more than the 2 stroke, > I was tired.

Not exactly sure, - central, maybe Challis area, I also like the look of things up around Dworshak reservoir, right in the middle of wolf country.
Hunting/trapping predators big and small until I kick the bucket.

That's country where you will want more power than you're used to. Elevation for wolves is gonna eat a big piece of the power you have experienced in Alaska. The good news is there's a groomed trail not terribly far away in those areas to save on the trip in and out.

I'm farther north but similar terrain and 60 miles in our area is a long long day.

Mainer in Alaska, I wouldn't mind buying a ''good'' old sled and overhauling it, I've had it in my mind to buy a new one.
I'm going over an old dual sport 1980 kawasaki kdx-250 2-stroke right now, it has 748 original miles on it, 42 years old. Yes '748' miles.
I'm tired of the sky-high prices and BS these days, $5500-$5900 for a honda trail 125cc, $6000+?+? for a yamaha tw 200?

I put new plastic, new tires/tubes, oil change, new air filter, grips etc., painted a few things on the KDX. Poured a few drops of premix down the spark plug hole when putting a new plug in and kicked it twice. Spark arrestor was off [getting painted] kabooom ping ping said the old 250 motocross bike engine. Put a smile on my face.

Anyway, I had forgotten how much I enjoy working on stuff, so an old VK or? whatever might be a good project for me.

MedRiver, hello , no I haven't given a tracked quad any thought, sure looks like a great machine you have.
I looked at 'tracks' for motorcycles, pretty pricey, $6-$7,000. I have a 2001 honda cr-500, I don't think it would make a good trapping hunting bike, laf.

Of all the new sleds, I'm liking the Skandic 600 Ace as recommended

I'm not in Alaska, I asked in this sub-forum because Alaskans likely know their stuff about 'winter equipment'.

I have to get a better handle on where the deer/elk [wolf/mountain lion food] migrate to and the terrain there.

Just checked on-line price of the Sport - about $9200 MRP. More up here. There is a guy with last years model, pretty much unrun, wanting to sell for $14K.He has a couple add-ons. Told him I'd give him 10. If he s willing to come down, I might go 11. or a bit more.

No idea what he paid for it, but almost certainly too much on the pandemic prices. Not my problem.

Have you spent much time in the areas that you’re considering?

Not a huge amount of time, I lived in Meridian, ID. near Boise, I hunted/camped up east of McCall, and around Stanley, ID. .

Several times we have tried to help side by sides with tracks get out of mudholes, rivers, creeks, tundra, and snow. On average the recovery produces damage in the mid $4k range... Would consider them a bad joke in the vast majority of the country we hunt.

I can absolutely see their value in the described windblown modest snow areas... but not where we run. Last year we marked trees at snow level. Flags turned out to be 20' above grade in our moose camp.

The 600efi Tundra or Skandic would be a good option. I’d stay away from the 4strokes in the mountains of Idaho. You are looking at 10 - 12k…the new base price for utility machine these days.

If it were me, and I admittedly don't know your exact circumstances, I'd look at older iron. I like, know and trust some of the older rigs, all fan-cooled. Things like:

- Polaris Indy Lite GT
- Ski-doo 550 Freestyle Backcountry
- Arctic Cat 440 Panther

I'm at the age and condition where I appreciate the weight and size of these machines much more than some of the newer stuff. Those with clamshell hoods make any necessary tinkering easier. If you don't neglect regular maintenance, they are simply reliable.

Behind the yammy, an arctic cat bearcat 340 with reverse. The fan cooled 340 was the most fuel efficient utility sled I've ever used. I've owned all iterations of the older Bearcats. Bearcat was the most comfortable of rides.

The low gearing and work-machine clutching were excellent.

Fan cooled suzuki motors. Crank Seals and case halves will get leaky over time. No biggie:

Polaris,
I've mostly run machines with the 488 fuji twin. Mono block and piston port. No Reed valves, mono block design means less gaskets for things to leak.

The widetrack lx had a very stout low gear, started easily at 50 below zero temps. I'd haul mostly building materials, and 3-4 people at a time. Never once had problems with that high/low/reverse/neutral transfer case!

I did burn one belt hauling two 8 foot long freight sleds full of building materials in one load. Trail was drifted, and I pinned it wide open throttle for about 3-4 miles. Belt got too hot.

The other polaris hauled fuel oil and firewood. It was a polaris trail 500 (fan cooled 488).Clutching was a little soft for heavy loads.

My son would haul the camp gear and gas with a tundra 250:


Polaris trail 500:

If you are tall , old or have any back problems the newer sled geometry is better.
Shopping for one myself - upright rider position is on top of my list.
Good luck.

For what we do, 550 fan Tundras are terrific - 2009 black & 2010/11 yellow.





Super reliable, dug her out & fired her up !

I definitely concur for doing any serious riding, but for casual putting around, trapping, scouting, and other <100 mile chores/days, some of the old stuff is pretty functional, especially given that the comfortable machines also tend to be heavier should they get stuck (which is a good part of how my back and body got old and problematic.) Admittedly, one need not resort to near zero suspension like the old Elans and Bravos have. But so much depends on the terrain you're riding too.

Seth Kantner always referred to my Bravo as "the toolbox". regarding the suspension....

For heavy duty stuff, he preferred AC Bearcats.

I've always been inclined toward the middle ground between the light snowwalkers (with poorer suspensions) and the heavy snow walkers (which ride great but leave one stuck for hours, if alone, searching for creative ways to move again), hence the 136"-ish tracks without lots of amenities like the Panthers.

BTW, those Skidoo Freestyle Backcountry 550 rigs from around 15 years ago, funny looking though they were, were great little rigs for aging guys running solo. Plenty of power for utility, light enough to crawling through lots of fluff, light enough to lug about when stuck, not a great 300 mile/day rider but a better ride than most anything in its weight class. I wish a few of Saint Michael's finest chillerns hadn't decided to roast marshmallows over mine.

Brand new 2021 skandic rode like SHI T! Had exactly 4 miles on it when I jumped on it. Tippy on side hills, overly stiff suspension too heavy to lean it over in powder.

Was sore for days after spending a week hauling loads with one. After day 2, I stood the rest of the time I ran it.

An old bearcat felt like a ride in a Cadillac compared to that skandik.

I’m not sure which model Skandic you were on? My 2023 LE model Skandic - 600efi -20” is fairly light and maneuverable. Rides very smooth…still breaking it in, very impressed so far…

If I were the OP I'd be paying particular attention to the message Klikitarik is layin' down with his replies in this thread.

Finally chewed up a yamaha chain case. I break trail with a semi tire with an inner tube full of water. Its a big snow-brake, but makes a nice trail. Bounces off trees instead of catching.

Very excited to finally seethe inside of a yammy chain case.

Training some young fellas to run dogs.

Think they're hot sht on a silly snowmobile (a "snowmachine" word doesn't make it real work).

They'll sleep good tonight:

Great pic above mainer, those dogs look pretty tough.

The mid teens Summit long tracks get great fuel economy and can go just about anywhere. They are not as tippy as the Polaris of the same years. I had a 2014 Summit X 800. Has a good system to attach bags, gas cans etc on the back tunnel. We always carried gas, and didnt need it ourselves. Use if for someone else to extend the day on the snow. The track is 16" wide also, instead of 15" so you get an additional inch of track on the ground in width, more footprint for equivenlant length.

Funny all the negative stuff I see about Polaris. They 100% rule the mountain anywhere I have been. They are top of the line with innovation, have the best chassis, make the best power and often are the lightest by a small amount. I started with Polaris in 2000, went to skidoo from 2005 - 2019, and am back to Polaris. The Polaris Axys and Pro series outnumber all other brands combined and probably easily in the Big Horns, Togwotee and Snow Range, even in the Rockies around Rabbit Ears. They have been reliable, handle better and seem to be better with riders that have a little experience. SkiDoo is a little less tippy, and may be easier for new riders

if I could figure this darned image posting circus out, I'd post a pair of Polaris rigs that had 20,000 between the two of them at the time. The bigger one gave up with 25,000...original pistons. You won't find me bad-mouthing Polaris in general. (Their 550 had some issues admittedly.)

Mainer,

What do you do with the lumber?

Testing this image posting stuff....


That log, tugged off the Tanana River on April 19, two days before holes began to open, weighed 970 pounds after the bark was removed and it had dried for six weeks. That "puny" little 440 fan-cooled engine did the deed, punchy trail and all, and did it without burning the belt over the 7 mile trip.

I'm sure you know this oakster, so just for those that haven't tried it.... Never try to make a mountain sled into a utility machine. There are few experiences as miserable as fighting an overheating machine when it's really cold out, and it happens reliability.

As to Polaris, I don't hate them exactly. I think I could really like some of the pro rmk models. Don't know what they have for utility machines these days.

Hell, I hear there are even places that yamaha mountain sleds are something other than a laughingstock.

I just bought this for 1800 bucks, its a 99 Ski-doo 700 and is bad azz, I needed it for hunting. I haven't been around sleds since I left the trapline 40 years ago. Back then we had two 250 Ski-doo's I think they were Elan's?? they were great for the bush, easy to get unstuck.
This one here did what I needed it to do for us, pretty heavy, no reverse. There aren't much for used sleds around here at this time, and I don't know much about them anymore and I figure I got lucky when I found this one.

Look for a good used machine. I just picked up a yamaha nitro. Good all use machine

I just heard a radio ad for a local place that rents snowgos. Maybe such a place Ideeho so you could try before you buy.

I bought this Tundra LT R new and it is the best money I ever spent.

Snow dog ?

Snowgos search shows a tri-cycle thngy sled

Snow mobile

Snowmachine

Yeah that would be nice to try some out and seewhat worked best.
I remember a place in Meridian, Idaho that rented them out. Rented all kinds of stuff right down to tents/sleeping bags/camp dishes.

If you die doing something you love, could it be considered a win?

Crews recovered the body of 87-year-old Charles Kind in the south canyon area beyond the Whitefish Mountain Resort boundary on Dec. 14




Dec.15, 2022 Montana
Search and rescue (SAR) teams on Dec. 14 recovered the body of an 87-year-old Whitefish man who was snowmobiling solo in Canyon Creek outside of the Whitefish Mountain Resort boundary after he was reported missing the day before, according to Flathead County Sheriff Brian Heino.

Two Bear Air located Charles Kind in the south canyon area of the Canyon Creek trail system about four to five miles beyond a groomed trail in a remote area at about 4:30 p.m.



The sheriff’s office on the evening of Dec. 13 received a report of a missing snowmobiler who had left for a ride up Canyon Creek Road north of Columbia Falls and was expected to be home by 2 p.m. About 30 searchers from the Flathead County Sheriff’s Office, Two Bear Air, and North Valley and Flathead SAR teams were dispatched that evening at around 5 p.m.

Two Bear Air was unable to fly until the following day due to snowy conditions, but a break in the weather allowed crews to fly the afternoon of Dec. 14. A crew member spotted the snowmobile light at about 4 p.m., which was still on and the machine was running. Kind was with his snowmobile when he was located, and crews hoisted his body on the aircraft.

“It looked like he got stuck and it appeared the snowmobile was buried,” Heino said.

Heino said the zone that Kind was riding in hadn’t been packed down by other riders and the snow conditions were “sugary” and entailed complex riding. No avalanches were involved in the incident.

The cause of death is unknown at this time, Heino said.

(Arctic Cat BLAST M 4000)

"The cause of death is unknown at this time, Heino said."

I'm guessing heart attack, but who knows. I see snowmobilers with hardly any gear heading into remote areas. A winter sleeping bag, a good foam pad and some basic gear weighs less than 15 ibs., hardly a problem on a snow machine.

Sledneck!

Snowgo

Sled

More money than brains club