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Originally Posted by ShortMagFan
So basically they made sound business decisions for themselves.

Knowing a little bit about operations, marginal costs, contribution margins etc. there is absolutely no way that McMillan was turning a profit on their lower volume, more obscure work.

So they had a choice when looking at unprofitable parts of their business - either shelve the molds and stop offering those unprofitable combinations, or raise prices to the point of making them profitable. I can only imagine the meltdown on the campfire if they raised prices on their lower volume, more obscure work to try to turn a profit.

Some of you will undoubtedly say the McMillan family did it - but capitalism is part of what makes america great and when you buy a business for a certain price, it is yours to manage as you please, including running it in a way to turn the profit necessary to justify what you paid for it.

Last i checked businesses don't exist to make your life easier by making an obscure stock at a loss. They exist to make a profit for their shareholders. If Beck has concluded that focusing on larger volume patterns, inlets and dealers is the best way to maximize value of the business, more power to him from my point of view.

If there is a void left behind that is worth filling, capitalism suggests someone will fill it.

PS - so what barrel maker do we expect Beck to buy?


Yes, it went from a family owned company, to a venture capitalist which increased prices and cut products.


Just like what we all like about American Capitalism..
Going from local stores, to Wallmart behemoths or other chains, that imports cheap foreign [bleep], so we don't have to pay higher prices for goods made by American workers.


.


The US in the last 40 years:

Socialism for big corporations and military industrial complex

&

Rugged individualism for the individual.
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Originally Posted by ShortMagFan
Originally Posted by TX35W
Most recently, McMillan made cuts to their available types of stocks and the actions they inlet for. They are getting rid of less-used molds or storing them away and saying they got rid of them. Also insisting on larger and more constant production runs for the smaller custom stocks they make for rifle builders, etc, refusing to do inlets that they used to do on certain stocks, etc.

Probably making more runs of stocks they can sell in large quantities to Altus, Redhawk, etc...while cutting the one-off stuff that folks on this forum tend to appreciate.
Originally Posted by Northman
I agree with TX35W..

McMillan was the only synthetic stock maker of different molds for "unusual" rifle actions..
Which I had no problem with waiting 7-8 months for mine, because nobody else made one for my action.

Now its basically Rem 700 and clones, Tikka T3, some Win 70, Something Savage, Howa 1500.


They removed ALOT of different stock models, some molds they removed from website years ago, but still able to buy flattop, but dont list on website, you have to ask, etc etc..


Now they make almost exclusively for Rem 700.. and bought a company that makes Rem 700 clones..
So, I guess we will see rifles made one their actions, in their stocks was well.... Synergy

So basically they made sound business decisions for themselves.

Knowing a little bit about operations, marginal costs, contribution margins etc. there is absolutely no way that McMillan was turning a profit on their lower volume, more obscure work.

So they had a choice when looking at unprofitable parts of their business - either shelve the molds and stop offering those unprofitable combinations, or raise prices to the point of making them profitable. I can only imagine the meltdown on the campfire if they raised prices on their lower volume, more obscure work to try to turn a profit.

Some of you will undoubtedly say the McMillan family did it - but capitalism is part of what makes america great and when you buy a business for a certain price, it is yours to manage as you please, including running it in a way to turn the profit necessary to justify what you paid for it.

Last i checked businesses don't exist to make your life easier by making an obscure stock at a loss. They exist to make a profit for their shareholders. If Beck has concluded that focusing on larger volume patterns, inlets and dealers is the best way to maximize value of the business, more power to him from my point of view.

If there is a void left behind that is worth filling, capitalism suggests someone will fill it.

PS - so what barrel maker do we expect Beck to buy?

Actually, the changes started before the McMillan family sold the company. Before the sale they had already started reducing offerings. eg: the KS pattern went from a standard offering to a special order, with a $100 special order fee. IIRC, they had already started limiting some of the Win M70 inlet options. No more gel coat Edge fill stocks because of QC issues when the carbon fiber sometimes showed thru. And prices were already starting to trend upward. They were running flat out, full capacity, and building a backlog of orders. All of the stuff to make "Merger and Acquisition" bean counters smile. Kelly McMillan did an excellent job of prepping the company to maximize value for his family at time of sale. And he did it well. Unlike the debacle at Leupold...


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Originally Posted by Northman
Originally Posted by ShortMagFan
So basically they made sound business decisions for themselves.

Knowing a little bit about operations, marginal costs, contribution margins etc. there is absolutely no way that McMillan was turning a profit on their lower volume, more obscure work.

So they had a choice when looking at unprofitable parts of their business - either shelve the molds and stop offering those unprofitable combinations, or raise prices to the point of making them profitable. I can only imagine the meltdown on the campfire if they raised prices on their lower volume, more obscure work to try to turn a profit.

Some of you will undoubtedly say the McMillan family did it - but capitalism is part of what makes america great and when you buy a business for a certain price, it is yours to manage as you please, including running it in a way to turn the profit necessary to justify what you paid for it.

Last i checked businesses don't exist to make your life easier by making an obscure stock at a loss. They exist to make a profit for their shareholders. If Beck has concluded that focusing on larger volume patterns, inlets and dealers is the best way to maximize value of the business, more power to him from my point of view.

If there is a void left behind that is worth filling, capitalism suggests someone will fill it.

PS - so what barrel maker do we expect Beck to buy?


Yes, it went from a family owned company, to a venture capitalist which increased prices and cut products.


Just like what we all like about American Capitalism..
Going from local stores, to Wallmart behemoths or other chains, that imports cheap foreign [bleep], so we don't have to pay higher prices for goods made by American workers.


.

You can thank Bill Clinton and unions for that... your buddies, dumbazz


A good conservative will give you the shirt off his back.

A good liberal will give you the shirt off someone else's back.

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Originally Posted by 300MAG
Defiance Machine has been sold to the Extreme Group (Bob Beck).....same company that bought out McMillan stocks.

Not sure what to think about this one...😳

Me neither but I sure enjoy your Avatar!

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Originally Posted by PintsofCraft
Originally Posted by 300MAG
Defiance Machine has been sold to the Extreme Group (Bob Beck).....same company that bought out McMillan stocks.

Not sure what to think about this one...😳

Me neither but I sure enjoy your Avatar!

Heady Topper is the GOAT......I love it!!!
🍺👍🍺

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Plenty of other good actions out there to choose from not really concerned about it. I'm not going to loose sleep over it.


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Yeah I have a defiance but prefer my borden

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Originally Posted by ShortMagFan
All those saying McMillan isn’t the same since Beck bought them - can you be more specific?

I never had a bad experience with McMillan before the sale, but my one experience since the sale has been better. Easier to order, better communication on their part etc. and the wait time wasn’t as long as usual.

And the fit and finish on the stock is as good as ever. And don’t even get me started on the buying experience compared to Manners. That place is an operational disaster

So what has changed that has some of you saying Beck as “dicked up” the company? Is this based on actual first hand experience or general Campfire grumpiness and herd mentality about anything that changes?

I was still quoted the typical 4-6month wait, less stock options, increased prices, and can't even get a red pad anymore. Yea it's great.

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I like their actions, I’ll probably buy more of them.

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It looks like the CRF and 3 position safety options have vanished off the website? Am I the only one not seeing those anywhere now?


-Matt

"The proof of the whisky is in the drinking, the proof of the rifle is in the shooting."
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Originally Posted by GuideGun
It looks like the CRF and 3 position safety options have vanished off the website? Am I the only one not seeing those anywhere now?


GG,
Yes.
Talked to their salesman a couple of weeks ago. Says no longer a option. They just want to manufacture the easy to make actions like everyone else makes with high profit margins .
Nothing special about Defiance Machine any longer.
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I have 2 builds with Defiance Rebel actions and so far I'm really pleased with both. In looking at their price now after the big increase I'm not sure I'd buy another. I paid something like $1100 for mine which seemed to be a decent price, at $1645+ now not so sure its much of a deal.


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Originally Posted by NWT
Originally Posted by GuideGun
It looks like the CRF and 3 position safety options have vanished off the website? Am I the only one not seeing those anywhere now?


GG,
Yes.
Talked to their salesman a couple of weeks ago. Says no longer a option. They just want to manufacture the easy to make actions like everyone else makes with high profit margins .
Nothing special about Defiance Machine any longer.
NWT

Dammit. Wanted a ruckus with a 3 pos. Looks like I futzed around too long.

It’s the same thing they did with McMillan. Eliminate all the low volume special stuff that originally made the company what it was. Focus on the high volume, high margin. Completely understand from the business perspective; but not a fan from the consumer standpoint.

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Originally Posted by Oregonmuley
I have 2 builds with Defiance Rebel actions and so far I'm really pleased with both. In looking at their price now after the big increase I'm not sure I'd buy another. I paid something like $1100 for mine which seemed to be a decent price, at $1645+ now not so sure its much of a deal.
No kidding. Nitrided anti x is now nearly $1900.

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Man, that's a helluva jump for an already expensive action...


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Originally Posted by beretzs
Man, that's a helluva jump for an already expensive action...
Right? Buy 2+ evo ii’s for that.

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Originally Posted by AKwolverine
Originally Posted by beretzs
Man, that's a helluva jump for an already expensive action...
Right? Buy 2+ evo ii’s for that.

Just bite the bullet and get the LX1....


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Originally Posted by beretzs
Originally Posted by AKwolverine
Originally Posted by beretzs
Man, that's a helluva jump for an already expensive action...
Right? Buy 2+ evo ii’s for that.

Just bite the bullet and get the LX1....


😁


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Glad I snagged a CRF action when I did.

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for a hunting action its hard to beat a pierce for under a $1000.00....mine with a lilja barrel is easily 1/2 moa

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