Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire Rifles that shoot 1/4"

That is why measuring devices have rings of the actual bullet diameter instead of the hole diameter - 6 mm has a .243 ring,.30cal. has a .308" ring etc....

Out of the (well over) 100 rifles I've owned I've only had 2 that would occasionally shoot 1/4" or better groups (5 shots at 100 yards)--- a Rem 700 VSSF 220 swift and a Cooper Montana Varminter 243.

With the shooting skills I have, I'm quite sure there were a lot more 1/4" groups that should've been realized but I just ain't that good. Those 2 rifles are far better shots than I am.
Most unlikely candidate for a 1/4" rifle I've encountered.....
My brothers AR 15 with which I (once) shot a 3 shot 100 yard group that measured just under 1/4". I ve shot that rifle dozens of times and NEVER even come close to that again.
He tells everyone that it's a 1/4" rifle, but you'll seldom see groups under 3/4" from it. Examples of one mean precious little.

Remington 513-T with Williams peep sight. Consistently 1/4".

That’s why you shoot a fouler or sighter and measure the hole. Then subtract that measurement from outside to outside.

I’ve shot some pretty small 10 shot groups with my pellet pistol, at 10 yards.

I have a sako 6 PPC that does (did ) it routinely at 100 yards from bags on a bench.

any rifle that shoots better than its bullet diameter is a keeper load.

shoot hundred rounds at a single target and you have a one hole shooter...

I’ve got a pile of custom rifles and a few older Sako box rigs that are 1 MOA rifles with 10 rounds. But, I only have two rifles that are what I’d consider true precision shooting marvels.

One is a build by Ryan Pierce in 6.5x47 Lap. The other is a build by Scott Weichel @ Live Oak Accuracy in 7WSM.

I’m happy with a 1 MOA rifle that will cluster 3-5 rounds, then open up a smidge.

🦫

There are a lot of "right answers" already posted.
In my time reviewing and writing about rifles and cartridges, I began by first accepting that the rifles tested were hunting rifles. This makes it easier to report "findings" for the review rather that guessing potential. This was an important distinction as target or match rifles are constructed differently to meet a designated group of restrictions or requirements as well as meeting traditional and copied specifications not "usual" in hunting rifles.

All the basics mentioned thus far, the shooter, scopes and mounting, quality ammunition (and a lot more) are all aspects of accuracy but the OP's question didn't ask that, it asked an opinion on how many rifles shoot 1/4" groups.

When a hunting rifle is tested, it comes from the box unfired, (mostly) in a raw commercial state meaning representative of what you will receive if you purchase same. These rifles are tested with any factory ammo provided as well as generating handloads. The longest I held onto a rifle was 6 months when the BOSS system was released as I deliberately did not read anything by the rush publications that always try to be fist, and secondly I wanted to learn its capabilities rather than be lead in any way.

My overall findings testing rifles was that most any rifle will shoot 3 shot groups under 1.5 inches at 100 yards.
The majority, meaning perhaps 80% would shoot under the inch and a few would should tiny groups around .5 to 3/4inch.

All things must be qualified if you intend to remove generalizations so a cursory look through my notes indicated the following:

Browning A-Bolt .270 with BOSS
Although I, over a period of time reviewed several rifles fitted with the BOSS unit, including a Model 70 Stainless in .270, Browning Semi Auto in .308, Browning A-Bolt Heavy Barrel in .22/250, best accuracy came from the standard A-Bolt sporter with thin 20'" barrel which shot as tight as .239" using 140gn Hornady BT's over 54.5gn of Reloder 22 for a relatively mild load of 2661fps. Still a formidable load where I shot a lot of animals over the testing period but a standout became a cover shot for the magazine where I took a feral Billie at 400 yards using the 140gn Barnes X bullet with a full length spine raking shot where the bullet was recovered at the base of the neck weighing still 140grains. With that particular rifle, there were several groups in the .3-.5" range but none as tight as the aforementioned.


Mid 80's Weatherby Vanguard VGX in .300 Winchester Magnum
Found a bunch of Speer Round Nose bullets being discounted at a store so put a few boxes on the shelf in-case. During a review a dropped a 165gn over a charge of 73gn IMR4831 and shot the magic cloverleaf, probably for the first time. Wrote it up and got called on it. Aussies love throwing darts. A hunting rifle, preposterous! This was a great rifle that shot may groups in the .5-.7 range but I never repeated that tight 1/4" cloverleaf.

Model 70 SS in .300 RUM
This rifle really turned heads at the range because the blast and recoil attracted attention then it became obvious the spotting scopes were turning to my targets when 1/4 inch groups down to 3 shot clusters touching started repeating. This rifle more than any other repeated that level of accuracy though not all the time and not at call, but damn, it was special.
The load that broke into that territory was the Barnes 130gn TTSX over 96gn of H4831sc for 3462fps.

Model 70 Cabela's Super Grade in 7x57
I have had several 7x57's including a John Rigby & Sons .275 but this model 70 shoots a lot of very accurate groups with a wide range of bullets and bullet weights and over all it probably the best rifle I have ever loaded for. The first load I worked for it after mounting a new Zeiss Conquest 3-9 as I have stated before, shooting a .254" cloverleaf using the 145gn Barnes LRX and 51gn of H4350.
This level of accuracy was repeated using 150gn Ballistic Tips over 50gn of H4350 for a slightly milder 2755fps and .194". Very impressive stuff. Even shot the 175gn Partition into groups as small as .295" using 46gn of Reloder 17 so what is really demonstrated here, is that the rifle has a very good barrel and is friendly to bullets that cover an awful lot of game in the US and anywhere else for that matter.

Model 70 .280 Ackley Improved (An XTR 7x57 with the tighter 8 3/4" twist rechambered)
This Featherweight rifle has been fun to work with as it likes an a lot of bullets and overall is a great shooting and practical hunting rifle, for anywhere.
Best loads, is a rather large list as all bullet weights from 110-175 grains have been tried but for this tome, 160gn Nosler Accubonds produced 2948fps from 60grains of IMR4831 into .236" but the volume of loads for this rifle shot between this and .75MOA with most uniformity from the 150gn Nosler Ballistic Tio bullet at closer to .5 MOA is a pleasing degree of repeatability.


Model 70 with Custom Tobler 26" #5 SS barrel in .25/06
A lot of work has been done on this rifle in terms of various stocks, bedding, triggers and scopes but it is generally a half inch rifle meaning it is reasonably common to shoot that well. The stand lout load that broke the 1/4" mark used the 120gn Partition of all things and 57 grains of H 4831sc generating 3081fps and .202".


Lastly, we have my near 30 year old Model 70 in .30/06.
This is a genuine .5-MOA capable rifle with 3 shots and it has a long history of 5 shot groups into that level of accuracy with many loads being .5-.75" but it occasionally likes to insult knockers but shooting under that.
150gn Nosler Partitions have shot as low as the .2's in a tight triangle cluster using 62gn of H4350 for 2888fps with current powder batches. When this rifle was new, it used heavier charges indicating the powder may have been slower back then or the chamber and throat dimensions is perhaps larger that commonly found but in comparing to to other rifle so chambered over those decades, it is always using more powder to achieve common velocities.

Now for a few realities.
I cannot shoot that well all the time and am losing the ability as I age further. I have only met 2 men who used to be able to put 5 shots from most anything they shot, including up to the big Weatherby's into a bullet touching sized group using hunting rifles. This demonstrated themselves as being the major capability at that time as they always shot well. Considering I have been shooting guns since 1962, and range shooting up to about 30 times a year, there simply isn't that many people capable of shooting that well. Ask any range captain.

The rifles I stated above shot either isolated groups or repeated it seldom/sometimes,meaning arguments of "all day long" is drawing a long bow. The consistency is the goal once a good load has been found but is again, found in a "hunting rifle", so it isn't wise to get too hairy chested about a good group.

Relating to 3 shot groups. Many slander it but I do it because many cartridges are maxed out at 3 in a magazine, all the magnums for example are maxed at 3 rounds for the common Model 70 and Remington 700 in most instances so how practical it is to worry where shot 4 or 5 goes?

In practical terms it doesn't matter as you are either having a bad hunting day or culling, if you shoot more than 3 rounds at game.
In realistic terms, I don't believe there are any 1/4 inch hunting rifles as I don't believe it could be proven, only fluked. My groups above were fluked on a scenario of everything going well on that particular day. Easy to prove by setting up real targets and trying to validate accuracy with repeat groups.

These days I buy commercial targets that have 5 bulls eye targets per sheet. To that I add 1" self adhesive orange dot aiming points between and inline to generate 9 aiming points per sheet then put 2 sheets up at a time for 10 in total. (2 sheets fit nicely within the Oehler 35P chronograph I sent up at all range sessions.) By shooting a group, letting the barrel cool and reshooting over and over, you will identity any inconsistency in your shooting stance, rifle support, rifle hold, trigger squeeze and concentration during the aiming process. You should never anticipate the sear break if you are concentrating on the aiming point as that consistency alone is the greatest factor in groups opening and that is apart from wind, optics and all the other factors mentioned by other contributors.

Self challenge is great. It is the attempt to dominate your self control over the process. That "is" the ultimate challenge, but you also have to remind yourself that you are entertaining yourself and don't beat your self up too much when you have a bad day, as you will.

At this point, I would need a multi targeted group sheet with multiple .25" or thereabouts groups shot before I believe the any one off tiny groups that I and millions of others have shot over the years. The best hunting rifles will group under 1 inch. The best of those will group between .5 and .75 for the majority of groups with their best and proven handloads but for every tenth of an inch you want to improve from there with consistency, you better have a good barrel maker, know how to do your own bedding and have deep pockets as it is incremental steps thereafter that will change out every component on you rifle right up to the final departure of the action where you restart all over again.

Let me finish with a true story of a fluke I performed.
I was invited to a group hunt for writers from everywhere, about 40 of us in all.
Destination Wyoming and we all attended the range, at least they call that howling wind tunnel a range.
Rifles were blazing and the cowboy came out in all the city boys.

I pulled out my Winchester Featherweight in .30/06 loaded with 180gn Swift A-frames right on 2800fps and shot my first 2 which were sighted nicely and almost touching, with a tiny web of paper barely noticeable between the holes. Because I had already been clanging the gongs at longer ranges with my .460, I had a lot of eyes on me apparently.
One of our (loud) hosts said at the top of his voice, "if he can break that web between the holes I am packing up my rifle right now".
I did and he did.

Unlike, Beanland, Lane Precision Rifles, GA, Alamo Precision Rifles, and several others who turn out some awesome shooting rifles - There are a few builders who don’t advertise much through social media, or there names may only come up within a small group of individuals who shoot for more than just hunting.

These lesser known builders have an artisan type approach to their builds, turning out fewer rifles, but they are beyond impressive in every way possible.

I’d say that Scott Weichel is one who fits the artisan builder mold to a ‘T’. He’s odd, in that his life is all about precise engineering of components and marrying them together with a level of knowledge and experience gained over many years working with some of the best machinist and gun builders of the time.

Getting a rifle built by Scott can be an effort. It may take longer than you’d expect. But, if you have the patience, the final product is something that you won’t get bored with or send down the road when you decide it’s time to thin the herd.

I personally know two other individuals who own several Weichel builds. They won’t sell them and that includes me and my 7WSM.

🦫

There are some rifles living here that shoot 1/4 inch - but seems like they are the constant. The tricky and often frustrating variables are the loads, the sights, and most of all the inconsistent shooter.

Boom!

At what distance?

1/4 " group

I've only been able to do that once, 3 shots with factory 165 gr 3006 federal fusion......ruger hawkeye

...after the first shot, I thought the 2nd shot had missed the entire target as I could only see one hole through the scope. Walked down to see if the edges of the target were chipped......upon close examination the first hole appeared a bit irregular.....went back, fired a third shot, wound up with a squashed figure 8........

After 3 pages in and you are the first to bring this up. Sometimes I feel like a lot of guys are talking about 1 single 1/4" 3 shot group. The OP needs to clarify, as no one is ever on the same page when dealing with precision/accuracy and group size. Hell, a lot of guys don't even know how to measure a fu cking group. They can carry on though.

Your shaky hands couldn’t make a peanut butter and jelly sandwich.

LOL

old moron

Bingo^^^ Measuring like that gives you a totally optimistic read. That means the group is generally larger than what you think it is by measuring in this fashion. Even some ballistic apps measure wrong. My buddy had me shoot one of his 308's the other day and his app said this group was .100" for 5 shots:

I know, it looks bigger than that, but the hole is not clean because of the ragged azz target boards at the range. I told him it was closer to .250" and his ballistic x app was wrong. I left the target at the range, since it was fired from his rifle and not something I'd use for my data records. If I would have brought it home, I would have folded those pedals in and measured appropriately.

While not a big-game hunting rifle here are some 50 yard targets from my Cooper Jackson Hunter and Cooper LVT, both in 22 LR.

These groups were shot on near perfect days and I was on my performance game those days, I shot the top two targets on the same day. The next day I shot another target with the LVT again but before I could shoot another one with the Jackson Hunter the wind was up.

I was using windflags, waited for the same condition for each shot and it took about an hour to shoot each target consisting of five consecutive 5-shot groups but the five 5-shot groups prove that the rifles and ammo are capable of it, and on those particular days so was I.

scumlord: Again YOU have absolutely NO idea what you are talking about and being correct in your contentions here obviously has NO importance to you!
My hands are steady as a rock - for your information!
I enjoy watching dimwits like you suffer in your own stupidity.
Again, I ask you to TRY and contribute something, anything, correct, positive or pertinent here!
You apparently are not capable - along with you being immature and ignorant - backwoodsy thing?
He-he.
Sheesh.
Hold into the wind

I am happy with a 6" 100yd group to be honest because I will never have the opportunity to kill any deer farther than that in these woods.

I do have a 1958 Remington 722 in .222 that I bought a couple years ago that is setup for bench rest shooting. I would love to take to a longer range just to see how good it will shoot. I have a 50yd setup here and that booger puts em on top the other but at 100yds?????

I have actually had two 1/4 inch rifles. They were 40x Remingtons. One was a 223 and the other was a 6/47. Both came with test targets of less than a 1/4 inch. Each had the load that the test target was shot with.
My wife and I shot a lot of groups with these rifles. She usually shot a little better than me. 1/4 inch groups were common.
But not every group was great. 4 would go into one hole then a flyer would happen. Never knew if it was the load or the shooter. Hasbeen