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Joined: Oct 2005
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Campfire Oracle
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OP
Campfire Oracle
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 79,321 Likes: 2 |
,...from a 5" Model 10-5, 10 yards rested. 158 grain swaged SWCHP over 7 grains of AA#5,...probably about 1000 fps. It's my interpretation of the old FBI load. It hits about an inch low when I twist its ear this much. AA#5 is very accurate in the .38 at +P+ levels with 158s. bbcode image link
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Joined: Oct 2010
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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Joined: Oct 2005
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Campfire Oracle
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OP
Campfire Oracle
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 79,321 Likes: 2 |
It's mostly the result of the revolver and the load. I can't group like that unless I rest the revolver. Model 10s will definitely shoot, though.
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 5,831 Likes: 1
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 5,831 Likes: 1 |
Have to say Nice shooting!
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Joined: Jul 2022
Posts: 541
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Jul 2022
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Nice gun and very nice shooting!
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 12,534
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jul 2005
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That's some good shooting. Keep up the good work.
You can roll a turd in peanuts, dip it in chocolate, and it still ain't no damn Baby Ruth.
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 21,700 Likes: 3
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 21,700 Likes: 3 |
That'll do to ride the river with!
"The number one problem with America is, a whole lot of people need shot, and nobody is shooting them." -Master Chief Hershel Davis
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 79,321 Likes: 2
Campfire Oracle
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OP
Campfire Oracle
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 79,321 Likes: 2 |
That'll do to ride the river with! That's the load I told you about when you were discussing what to shoot out of your 3" model 10,...except I'm using a SWCHP made by a small company instead of the Hornady offering. Well,...far be it from me to suggest non standard loads. But if you're not hesitant to shoot factory "warm" loads (Underwood) in your modern K-frame 38s, you might find 7 grains of AA#5 over 158s to be very satisfying. It's just a little tweak above what the Speer manual calls a +P. (They call 6.6 grains of #5 with swaged lead 158s a +P load that comes in under 20,000 PSI.)
Graf & Sons have the Hornady swaged 158 grain SWCHPs in stock for a reasonable tariff. My foundings with AA#5 tells me that the Hornady 158 grain swaged SWCHP over 7 grains of AA#5 in your modern K-frame would result in a right respectable FBI load.
My opinion, a Modern K-frame .357 (model 13 & 19) aren't even a bit stronger than a modern K-frame .38,...and people have been pushing 35,000,..even 40,000 PSI through K-frame .357s for a long time. (full tilt .357s will loosen up a model 13/19 toot sweet, but they won't blow one up)
The 7 grain AA#5 load with 158 swaged bullets is probably way down around 21,000 PSI. Way below the loads that people have been shooting through Model 19/13s for many years.
As for all that mumbo jumbo about K-frame .357s being made out of superior steel than the Modern K-frame 38s,...bullshit. All the magic about tool steel has been over since the early 60s. All typical tool steels cost about the same. From a manufacturing standpoint, it wouldn't be cost effective to fabricate essentially the same revolver out of two kinds of steel. Just pick the best one and go with it,....same machining characteristics,..same heat treat procedure. Why would a manufacturer complicate the manufacturing process by using different steels when the cost of all tool steels are essentially the same? It makes no sense.
Back in the old days when new steels were first coming available, firearm manufacturers experimented with different steels for their revolvers. But the old days were a long time ago.
Other than a few cosmetics and the depth their cylinders are bored, there's no difference between a modern Model 10s and modern Model 19/13s.
S&W soon learned that a K-frame .357 wouldn't hold up very long with 35,000 to 40,000 PSI loads. That's what caused them to produce the 586/686 series.
But both a modern K-frame .38 *and* a modern .357 K-frame will handle 21,000 PSI all day long.
21,000 to 25,000 PSI is a good place for .38/.357 loads to be when they're shot through a modern K-frame S&W. 35,000 to 40,000 is too much for them regardless of what the stamping on the barrel says,..and the old standard 17,000 PSI loads aren't enough to realize their potential.
7 grains of AA#5, 158 grain swaged Hornady SWCHPs. You'll like them.
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 17,165 Likes: 4
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Posts: 17,165 Likes: 4 |
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 21,700 Likes: 3
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 21,700 Likes: 3 |
That'll do to ride the river with! That's the load I told you about when you were discussing what to shoot out of your 3" model 10,...except I'm using a SWCHP made by a small company instead of the Hornady offering. Well,...far be it from me to suggest non standard loads. But if you're not hesitant to shoot factory "warm" loads (Underwood) in your modern K-frame 38s, you might find 7 grains of AA#5 over 158s to be very satisfying. It's just a little tweak above what the Speer manual calls a +P. (They call 6.6 grains of #5 with swaged lead 158s a +P load that comes in under 20,000 PSI.)
Graf & Sons have the Hornady swaged 158 grain SWCHPs in stock for a reasonable tariff. My foundings with AA#5 tells me that the Hornady 158 grain swaged SWCHP over 7 grains of AA#5 in your modern K-frame would result in a right respectable FBI load.
My opinion, a Modern K-frame .357 (model 13 & 19) aren't even a bit stronger than a modern K-frame .38,...and people have been pushing 35,000,..even 40,000 PSI through K-frame .357s for a long time. (full tilt .357s will loosen up a model 13/19 toot sweet, but they won't blow one up)
The 7 grain AA#5 load with 158 swaged bullets is probably way down around 21,000 PSI. Way below the loads that people have been shooting through Model 19/13s for many years.
As for all that mumbo jumbo about K-frame .357s being made out of superior steel than the Modern K-frame 38s,...bullshit. All the magic about tool steel has been over since the early 60s. All typical tool steels cost about the same. From a manufacturing standpoint, it wouldn't be cost effective to fabricate essentially the same revolver out of two kinds of steel. Just pick the best one and go with it,....same machining characteristics,..same heat treat procedure. Why would a manufacturer complicate the manufacturing process by using different steels when the cost of all tool steels are essentially the same? It makes no sense.
Back in the old days when new steels were first coming available, firearm manufacturers experimented with different steels for their revolvers. But the old days were a long time ago.
Other than a few cosmetics and the depth their cylinders are bored, there's no difference between a modern Model 10s and modern Model 19/13s.
S&W soon learned that a K-frame .357 wouldn't hold up very long with 35,000 to 40,000 PSI loads. That's what caused them to produce the 586/686 series.
But both a modern K-frame .38 *and* a modern .357 K-frame will handle 21,000 PSI all day long.
21,000 to 25,000 PSI is a good place for .38/.357 loads to be when they're shot through a modern K-frame S&W. 35,000 to 40,000 is too much for them regardless of what the stamping on the barrel says,..and the old standard 17,000 PSI loads aren't enough to realize their potential.
7 grains of AA#5, 158 grain swaged Hornady SWCHPs. You'll like them. Ah, so!
"The number one problem with America is, a whole lot of people need shot, and nobody is shooting them." -Master Chief Hershel Davis
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Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 2,082 Likes: 1
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 2,082 Likes: 1 |
Model 10s will definitely shoot, though. They certainly do Bristoe. Nice shooting and nice M10. Your load is good to go for sure. I am amazed by my M10-5 4”, it is very accurate with just about anything. I shot this group at 15yds two hands offhand a little while ago with a target load. All my 38spl’s like it a lot. Your load is quite a bit warmer than mine, but, yes M10’s do shoot very well.
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 9,009
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 9,009 |
Nice shooting! I like that revolver.
Thank you for taking the time to post.
Wade
"Let's Roll!" - Todd Beamer 9/11/01.
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 17,794 Likes: 2
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2011
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Molon Labe
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Joined: Jun 2016
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jun 2016
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Great shooting guys! Great looking model 10's.
I figure a lot of newer shooters don't normally venture away from semi-autos or the big boomers & are taking time with the wonderful 38 Special. Many don't know what they're missing.
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Joined: Aug 2022
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Campfire Greenhorn
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Campfire Greenhorn
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Joined: Jan 2021
Posts: 62
Campfire Greenhorn
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Campfire Greenhorn
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Very nice shooting and nice looking piece
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Joined: Mar 2010
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 11,878 Likes: 21 |
,...from a 5" Model 10-5, 10 yards rested. 158 grain swaged SWCHP over 7 grains of AA#5,...probably about 1000 fps. It's my interpretation of the old FBI load. It hits about an inch low when I twist its ear this much. AA#5 is very accurate in the .38 at +P+ levels with 158s. bbcode image linkDamn good shooting!
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