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Joined: Nov 2005
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Nov 2005
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In Acts 9:1 we hear that Paul was making “murderous threats against the Lord’s disciples.” Talk is cheap. What do you mean by the idiom?
Illegitimi non carborundum
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Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 18,592 Likes: 18
Campfire Ranger
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OP
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 18,592 Likes: 18 |
If someone simply just doesn’t believe in the faith of Christianity to begin with, that’s one thing. But in our post-Christian society…for those who’ve walked away from it, or for those who no longer find it attractive, or for those who have come to no longer believe in it…those are the reasons that the OP was pertaining to. For those who once embraced it, who no longer embrace it, why is that…?
Every day on this side of the ground is a win.
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 19,825 Likes: 3
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 19,825 Likes: 3 |
The truth of the matter is that Jesus of Nazareth was a Jew. What about those who first followed the Messiah that God sent?. Were they Jews? Did they stop considering themselves Jews when they chose to follow the Messiah? So,...if, as Christians are following the Messiah that God sent to show Jews the proper path to follow,...what can Christianity be other than the proper path of Judaism? And there you have it, in a nutshell. Ed
"Not in an open forum, where truth has less value than opinions, where all opinions are equally welcome regardless of their origins, rationale, inanity, or truth, where opinions are neither of equal value nor decisive." Ken Howell
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 9,097
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 9,097 |
What about those who first followed the Messiah that God sent?. Were they Jews? Did they stop considering themselves Jews when they chose to follow the Messiah? IIRC ,James required Jesus followers to be Torah compliant as prerequisite and had a falling out with Paul over it. James led the Jerusalem church for some 30 yrs didn't he? So,...if, as Christians are following the Messiah that God sent to show Jews the proper path to follow,...what can Christianity be other than the proper path of Judaism? Rabbis explain how Jesus doesnt fit the criteria for the Messiah, they break it down so even you could understand it.
-Bulletproof and Waterproof don't mean Idiotproof.
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 3,654 Likes: 7
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jun 2007
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How many books of the Bible do you actually accept? Hadn’t you discounted all except a handful?
If keeping the law according to historical Judaism is the route you choose to take is think that it would be imperative that you clear your conscience concerning the Baptist church and your dealings with those people.
Deceiving them by influencing them down a path that you know is contrary to their beliefs breaks several of the commandments upon which you claim place so much importance. How can he be breaking commandments by enlightening people and helping them to learn the errors of their ways? I’m certain that you can figure out the conflict. No more conflict than any other who may proselytize. So if you were part of a private club, and some jackass, came in trying to change the club and make it something totally different than what you signed up for you’d be OK with that? I would be okay with any member who wanted to follow "jackass" to his new club. Is that not what proselytizing is all about? Pulling folks away from their club, to yours, so you can charge them dues. The jackass, agreed to the rules of the club, went through the initiation and was accepted as a member in agreement. He then went wacko jacko and started trying to change the club. That’s not proselytizing. That’s deception and lying. I doubt your conclusion.
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 6,725 Likes: 2
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 6,725 Likes: 2 |
If someone simply just doesn’t believe in the faith of Christianity to begin with, that’s one thing. But in our post-Christian society…for those who’ve walked away from it, or for those who no longer find it attractive, or for those who have come to no longer believe in it…those are the reasons that the OP was pertaining to. For those who once embraced it, who no longer embrace it, why is that…? Perhaps they begin to question. Which is a good thing.
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Joined: Oct 2005
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 79,321 Likes: 2 |
The truth of the matter is that Jesus of Nazareth was a Jew. What about those who first followed the Messiah that God sent?. Were they Jews? Did they stop considering themselves Jews when they chose to follow the Messiah? So,...if, as Christians are following the Messiah that God sent to show Jews the proper path to follow,...what can Christianity be other than the proper path of Judaism? And there you have it, in a nutshell. Ed My point is, there's no reason to place the "Judeo" in front of "Christian". The term "Christian" covers it all.
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Joined: Oct 2004
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Oct 2004
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The reported words of Jesus have him supporting Judaism, and the reason why he was sent...
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Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 18,592 Likes: 18
Campfire Ranger
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OP
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 18,592 Likes: 18 |
My point is, there's no reason to place the "Judeo" in front of "Christian". The term "Christian" covers it all. I don’t disagree. But clearly there are ‘still’ some Judaizers out there. Jesus Himself said “ Until John the Baptist, the Law and the Prophets ‘was’ your guide. But now the good news (the Gospel) of the kingdom of God is being preached…”.
Every day on this side of the ground is a win.
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Joined: Oct 2004
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 61,313 Likes: 34 |
I used to listen to, the Christian Jew Hour.
These premises insured by a Sheltie in Training ,--- and Cooey.o
"May the Good Lord take a likin' to you"
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Joined: Mar 2007
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Mar 2007
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The reported words of Jesus have him supporting Judaism, and the reason why he was sent... If Jesus was really divine then big sky daddy sent the wrong dude. coz the Hebrew Messiah (as prophecied) is meant to be a mere mortal, nothing more.
-Bulletproof and Waterproof don't mean Idiotproof.
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Joined: Dec 2013
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 13,248 Likes: 15 |
The jackass, agreed to the rules of the club, went through the initiation and was accepted as a member in agreement. He then went wacko jacko and started trying to change the club. That’s not proselytizing. That’s deception and lying. I doubt your conclusion. You are describing the one Jefferson said was the first to corrupt the doctrines of Jesus.
Patriotism (and religion) is the last refuge of a scoundrel.
Jesus: "Take heed that no man deceive you."
Hebrew Roots Judaizer
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jun 2007
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Then I’m describing you and only describing him by accident.
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 26,101 Likes: 20
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 26,101 Likes: 20 |
How many books of the Bible do you actually accept? Hadn’t you discounted all except a handful?
If keeping the law according to historical Judaism is the route you choose to take is think that it would be imperative that you clear your conscience concerning the Baptist church and your dealings with those people.
Deceiving them by influencing them down a path that you know is contrary to their beliefs breaks several of the commandments upon which you claim place so much importance. How can he be breaking commandments by enlightening people and helping them to learn the errors of their ways? I’m certain that you can figure out the conflict. No more conflict than any other who may proselytize. So if you were part of a private club, and some jackass, came in trying to change the club and make it something totally different than what you signed up for you’d be OK with that? I would be okay with any member who wanted to follow "jackass" to his new club. Is that not what proselytizing is all about? Pulling folks away from their club, to yours, so you can charge them dues. The jackass, agreed to the rules of the club, went through the initiation and was accepted as a member in agreement. He then went wacko jacko and started trying to change the club. That’s not proselytizing. That’s deception and lying. I doubt your conclusion. Wacko jacko? Maybe, he had an epiphany! If he is a Muslim, or Hindu discovering Christianity, is he wacko jacko?
People who choose to brew up their own storms bitch loudest about the rain.
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Joined: Dec 2019
Posts: 3,093 Likes: 7
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2019
Posts: 3,093 Likes: 7 |
How many books of the Bible do you actually accept? Hadn’t you discounted all except a handful?
If keeping the law according to historical Judaism is the route you choose to take is think that it would be imperative that you clear your conscience concerning the Baptist church and your dealings with those people.
Deceiving them by influencing them down a path that you know is contrary to their beliefs breaks several of the commandments upon which you claim place so much importance. How can he be breaking commandments by enlightening people and helping them to learn the errors of their ways? I’m certain that you can figure out the conflict. No more conflict than any other who may proselytize. So if you were part of a private club, and some jackass, came in trying to change the club and make it something totally different than what you signed up for you’d be OK with that? I would be okay with any member who wanted to follow "jackass" to his new club. Is that not what proselytizing is all about? Pulling folks away from their club, to yours, so you can charge them dues. The jackass, agreed to the rules of the club, went through the initiation and was accepted as a member in agreement. He then went wacko jacko and started trying to change the club. That’s not proselytizing. That’s deception and lying. I doubt your conclusion. Wacko jacko? Maybe, he had an epiphany! If he is a Muslim, or Hindu discovering Christianity, is he wacko jacko? I think the question then would be: Should he leave his Muslim or Hindu church and not pretend to be something he's not? Especially if he were in a leadership role.
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 26,101 Likes: 20
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 26,101 Likes: 20 |
If someone simply just doesn’t believe in the faith of Christianity to begin with, that’s one thing. But in our post-Christian society…for those who’ve walked away from it, or for those who no longer find it attractive, or for those who have come to no longer believe in it…those are the reasons that the OP was pertaining to. For those who once embraced it, who no longer embrace it, why is that…? The latter would describe me. I spent every Sabbath in Church as a kid. Learned all the Sabbath School lessons. Took Bible studies with missionaries from two different Churches. Studied OT in College. I even remember praying once at ten years of age when I lost a brand new pocket knife in a tall alfalfa field. But as I matured and learned the actual mechanics of the world, I came to recognize all of religion to be myths written by very clever and learned men with the intent to control and tax their tribes. It is all about keeping the priest well fed, well laid, and safe guard his monopoly on power.
People who choose to brew up their own storms bitch loudest about the rain.
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 26,101 Likes: 20
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 26,101 Likes: 20 |
And yes, the priests so jealously guarded their power structure that a few short centuries ago, I would have been burned at the stake for expressing such thoughts.
What do most of us say today about governing bodies trying to suppress voices of opposition?
People who choose to brew up their own storms bitch loudest about the rain.
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Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 18,592 Likes: 18
Campfire Ranger
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OP
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 18,592 Likes: 18 |
I think there are a great many people (like you) who once embraced it, who no longer embrace it. But of ‘all’ of the reasons that you gave for no longer embracing it, NONE of those reasons have anything to do with Jesus or His teachings. And that’s my point: Of all of the people that I’ve talked to, listened to, and read their interviews and blogs and books…and there have been many dozens of them (like you) who once embraced it, but who no longer embrace it…I’ve yet to hear a story from anyone who abandoned the faith of Christianity based on anything directly related to Jesus or His teachings. I’ve yet to hear a story from anyone who abandoned the faith of Christianity based on anything directly related to the faith of Christianity ~ at least the original version anyway.
Every day on this side of the ground is a win.
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Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 4,070
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Oct 2011
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Antlers, how do you define sin? I think that ‘sin’ is intentionally doing something that you inherently know to be wrong. Do you believe in reproof and rebuke of sin? If so, who or what is the authority? Where should one go for reference? Do ‘you’ need a “reference” to tell you that the intentionally wrong thing that you’re doing is ‘wrong’…? Are Christians immune from deception? How is one to test the spirits? When Jesus spoke of Sin, what was he referring to? I think that He was referring to one intentionally doing something that one inherently knows to be wrong. Again, are Christians immune from deception? Is safe to say Satan is the master of deception? .
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