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. I don’t know a single Christian that bases their “faith in Jesus” on the record of miracles in the NT.
. Seriously , You really need to get out more.
-Bulletproof and Waterproof don't mean Idiotproof.
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History is established through multiple lines evidence. The gospels are our sole source of information that we have on Jesus, and they are written by unknown authors/believers decades or more after the described events. Many would argue that there are indeed “multiple lines” of evidence. One of you can correct me if I am wrong but wasn’t it Bart Ehrman that said that there is more evidence corroborating the historicity of Jesus than any other figure from “antiquity.” You just choose to disbelieve the evidence….. It has been argued endlessly, yet there is still no evidence from multiple independent, objective sources....of course, Josephus, Tacitus, et al, were not witnesses. Sure, you can develop a multitude of reasons to justify your unbelief. The Pharisees …. the scholars of the Jewish culture….knew the messianic prophecies…..saw Jesus do miracles and they also refused to believe Jesus as Messiah.
The tax collector said: “Lord Jesus, have mercy on me, a sinner.” Jesus said he went home “justified.”
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…. You made a clear statement that the NT depiction of Pilate is at odds with “historians.”
You apparently cannot back up this very specific allegation.… For the third time I gave you Flavius Josephus But you are not interested in doing the study. You just want spoon feeding like a baby.
-Bulletproof and Waterproof don't mean Idiotproof.
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But Jesus predicted the end of the Jewish Temple (the very center of ancient Judaism)…! And on August 6 in 70 AD when the Roman Legion completely destroyed the Jewish Temple… Bart Ehrman dates Mark around 70 CE (not necessarily before.) He did a blog in March 2022 -" Why date Mark after 70 CE?" Scholarly consensus estimates between 65-75 CE. So not unreasonable that it's a narrative written after the Temple destruction ..so not a prophecy. Eugene Boring (PhD Vanderbilt): "… the apocalyptic discourse of chapter 13 with its prediction of the temple’s destruction … seems to reflect the tumultuous times of the war in Judea 66–73… The reference to the death of James and John in 10:39 is also relevant. …Thus virtually all scholars date Mark in the period 65–75, with the major issue being whether or not Mark 13 is understood to reflect the destruction of Jerusalem as something that has already happened."(Mark: A Commentary, 2006, p14)
-Bulletproof and Waterproof don't mean Idiotproof.
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Do you think that some people…maybe a lotta people…who don’t believe in God reject Him for volitional reasons rather than for intellectual reasons…? These posters reject God for the same reason most do. They don't want anyone telling them what to do. They are not intellectual. They are rebellious.
"Only Christ is the fullness of God's revelation." Everyday Hunter
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In a world of 90 and 100 hour work weeks. When work was back breaking digging in the Earth trying to keep enough food around to keep your babies alive for another week.
When famine, pestilence, disease, or enslavement lurked around every corner. That promise of salvation and everlasting plenty was a pretty attractive fantasy.
Again, in answer to the OP. In a world of 30 to 40 hour work weeks. In a world where even the slackest of slackers are well fed and provided medical care. We have achieved Heaven on Earth. You have no concept about what you post here.
"Only Christ is the fullness of God's revelation." Everyday Hunter
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Do you think that some people…maybe a lotta people…who don’t believe in God reject Him for volitional reasons rather than for intellectual reasons…? These posters reject God for the same reason most do. They don't want anyone telling them what to do. They are not intellectual. They are rebellious. There is that too. Apostle Paul said in Romans that people suppress the truth and unrighteousness because they wanna go their own way. Pascal said that people almost invariably arrive at their beliefs not on the basis of proof but on the basis of what they find attractive. A lotta people believe things just because they find them attractive, and maybe one of the attractive things about not believing in God is that there’s no moral accountability; you get to do whatever you want and never be judged for it.
Every day on this side of the ground is a win.
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I think there’s very good evidence that Christianity is true. To me, Christian faith and reason are complementary; to me, Christian faith is trusting in what you have good reason to believe is true.
Every day on this side of the ground is a win.
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... faith is trusting in what you have good reason to believe is true. Irrational apologetics and reason don't mix. No court would accept the claim that a stone dead corpse resurrected after 3 days and had dinner with old friends..the evidence is Pathetically underwhelming.
-Bulletproof and Waterproof don't mean Idiotproof.
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History is established through multiple lines evidence. The gospels are our sole source of information that we have on Jesus, and they are written by unknown authors/believers decades or more after the described events. Many would argue that there are indeed “multiple lines” of evidence. One of you can correct me if I am wrong but wasn’t it Bart Ehrman that said that there is more evidence corroborating the historicity of Jesus than any other figure from “antiquity.” You just choose to disbelieve the evidence….. It has been argued endlessly, yet there is still no evidence from multiple independent, objective sources....of course, Josephus, Tacitus, et al, were not witnesses. Sure, you can develop a multitude of reasons to justify your unbelief. The Pharisees …. the scholars of the Jewish culture….knew the messianic prophecies…..saw Jesus do miracles and they also refused to believe Jesus as Messiah. I don't invent any reasons. I merely point to what is absent.
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I think there’s very good evidence that Christianity is true. To me, Christian faith and reason are complementary; to me, Christian faith is trusting in what you have good reason to believe is true. 'Good reason' to believe is evidence. Faith is a belief held without the support of evidence.
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We have living eyewitness testimonies to Big Foot which is not available for claims surrounding Jesus but Xtians doubt BigFoot's existence.
The special pleading in Xtianity is chronic.
-Bulletproof and Waterproof don't mean Idiotproof.
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When he knocks, answer the door....
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In addition to predicting the complete destruction of the Jewish Temple nearly 40 years before it actually happened just as He’d predicted, Jesus also predicted the survival and thriving of the early church that’s been previously described. When Peter made his famous declaration that Jesus was God’s anointed One, the One they’d been waiting for, the Son of God ~ Jesus confirmed that Peter was right about that, and on the basis of that declaration, He was gonna build His ekklesia ~ and the gates of Hades (a place of death) would not prevail against it. Death wouldn’t stop it; not His death, and not any of His Apostle’s deaths. Nothing was gonna stop it. The Jewish Temple is gone, as is ancient Judaism. And the Roman Empire is gone too. And nowadays both Jerusalem and Rome are filled with Christian tourists, and crosses that commemorate Jesus. And people name their children Peter and Paul ~ and they name their dogs Caesar and Nero.
Every day on this side of the ground is a win.
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In addition to predicting the complete destruction of the Jewish Temple nearly 40 years before it actually happened just as He’d predicted, . Scholarly consensus concerning the dating of Mark raises a big question over such claim. It's far from certain that Mark was written before the Temple destruction by Romans. Bart Ehrman writes; (blog 9th March 2022.) "New Testament scholars are virtually unified in thinking that the Gospels of the New Testament began to appear after 70 CE. The major exceptions are conservative evangelicals who often date them earlier. One can understand why: they typically maintain that the Gospels of Matthew and John were written by disciples of Jesus...
There are good reasons, nonetheless, for the scholarly consensus outside evangelical circles. I’ve talked about the matter on the blog before but just now I reread my discussion in my New Testament textbook and thought it might be useful to give it here. In particular I like the final point I make (in the second to last paragraph), which, now that I think about it, I don’t think I’ve stressed enough over the years."
-Bulletproof and Waterproof don't mean Idiotproof.
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A case of "Chinese Whispers" or more like "Jewish Whispers"?
Whatever you said...everyone knows you are a lying jerk. That's a bold assertion. Point out where you think I lied. Well?
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A case of "Chinese Whispers" or more like "Jewish Whispers"? Simmer down subject.
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A case of "Chinese Whispers" or more like "Jewish Whispers"? Simmer down subject. Subject to what?
Whatever you said...everyone knows you are a lying jerk. That's a bold assertion. Point out where you think I lied. Well?
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…who were the “historians” of the day? Pertaining to the life of Jesus, the authors of the New Testament manuscripts were certainly included in the historians of the day (as you know). Christianity started with an event in history ~ the resurrection of Jesus. And following His resurrection there was a new movement. It was the ekklesia of Jesus ~ the body of believers that was eventually called the church. And following the historical events of Jesus’ life…including the things He said and did (and keep in mind he died in AD 33 at the latest)…people who were involved in these historical events later documented them for us. This is how we got the four Gospels and the Book of Acts and the Epistles. All of it happened in the first century. All of ancient history was written and recorded after the events occurred. Things that ancient historical figures said and did were recorded after they said and did them. The Antiquities of the Jews by Flavius Josephus was written decades after the events that he wrote about actually occurred.
Every day on this side of the ground is a win.
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Christianity started with an event in history ~ the resurrection of Jesus. Which actual scholarly historians (not theologians) back a resurrection as historical fact?
-Bulletproof and Waterproof don't mean Idiotproof.
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