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But there’s good evidence that Jesus was here, and that He was raised from the dead. Did the multiple and independent eyewitnesses to the events of Jesus’ life really see what they said they’d seen…? Could it be that all of those multiple and independent eyewitnesses were mistaken about what they said they’d seen…? Is it reasonable to believe that all of those multiple and independent eyewitnesses were mistaken…?

Christianity could’ve been squashed instantly by the Jews and the Romans if they’d taken Jesus’ dead body and paraded it around Jerusalem for several days ~ and Christianity woulda been over and done. Jesus made an empirical claim ~ He claimed to be God and predicted His own death and resurrection ~ and then He pulled it off…!

It could’ve been refuted empirically by the Jews and the Romans that wanted it refuted if they’d just produced the body and did with it what was mentioned above. But they couldn’t do that…they couldn’t produce the body…because Jesus was still using His body.

The free will claim of believers is not supported
by the word of g0d.

> God hardened the heart of Pharaoh against Moses

> Jesus preferred he skip the crucifixion
but instead followed the will of Big daddy.


Pagan style Human sacrifice appeasing the g0ds
comes to mind.

But Xtians have got it covered with the special pleading
defense.

Ehrman is very clear that Historians dont verify supernatural claims, period.
Citing anonymous writings from antiquity about mere claims is not verification
of a miracle. Such claims are not even first hand , but decades old word of
mouth gossip from a culture deeply immersed in superstition.
Such claims from antiquity don't even meet the lowest bar on the judicial
evidentiary scale.

Perhaps read Bart Ehrmans blog:

"The Case Against Miracles" - December 22, 2019.

When Sully landed the A320 on the Hudson 2009,.
They then made a movie calling it "Miracle on the Hudson"
Accordingly there are many who attribute such to
some supernatural intervention by their g0d.

A read of the NTSB incident report can rationally explain how
it's not the case with supporting facts , But that don't stop
believers 'believing' their own wishful thinking.

Or embracing cynicism in order to defer accountability ?

I think Ive seen it work both ways.

[b][/b]


You continue to demonstrate an astounding lack comprehension.

Are you really that dumb or just pretending?

You have little or no understanding of what “free will” is. Do you have the “free will” to jump off skyscraper and fly? No, you do not. You are bound by the law of gravity and “you got no wings.”

Regarding Pharoah….. did God present Pharoah with adverse circumstances and then did Pharoah make his own decisions about how to react…. thereby demonstrating the condition of his heart?

How you react to life circumstances reveals what is going on in the heart.


Btw….did you know that we start life with a lost and dark heart.

2 Corinthians 1:22……”…..Christ….set his seal of ownership on us, and put his Spirit in our hearts as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.”

Think if you will….. the Almighty God, placing his Spirit in our hearts.

One can live life with a dark and dead heart, or…..seek God and receive a pure and eternal heart.

Yes, the “choice” is indeed up to you…. Seek and Find or Don’t Seek and Don’t Find.

That was wrong. Later testing was done better.
https://www1.cbn.com/cbnnews/cwn/20...ud-of-turin-to-the-time-of-christs-death

You're taking my statement out of context. It was in leiu of 1st John chapter one that I stated in my previous post. I should have edited the original but I didn't.

You are correct there is plenty of proof and much more, all that you state here are good reasons. Also the Roman guards we paid off. But my main point was that John saw, spoke with, touched and heard concerning the Word of life

It does take, Faith.

Naw man; I was simply expounding on the historicity and the reality of Jesus’ life and death and resurrection. I’m sorry that you took my comments the way that you did.

How does a person dying on a cross save me or take away my sins?

It doesn't unless you believe that God can forgive you because of it. It's that faith that saves you.

There sure is history of His life death & resurrection. The proof is there for anyone who wants to try and disprove it.

Lol, I doubt that folks in Jesus’ day knew what the term “evidentiary scale” even meant. It is absurd to apply 21st century standards of evidence in criminal matters to 1st century events that weren’t even criminal in nature. The before and after lives of the early Christians make it clear that a supernatural event occurred. To them, the evidence was clear and overwhelming that a dead man had been raised from his tomb and walked among them. The fact that these events occurred long ago, before the age of video and audio recording, DNA analysis, and other 21st century forms of evidence does not negate their validity.

A non-believer looks at such a supernatural event beginning with the premise that there is no supernatural God; therefore, there can be no supernatural event. So, they make up ways to explain the behaviors of those who were there. A truly intellectually honest person looks at such an event, evaluates it as being clearly supernatural, and concludes there must be a supernatural being behind it.

Certainly, improbable events occur regularly; some, all, or none of which may be orchestrated by God. We don’t know. As a believer, I think they could be; but I don’t know for sure. It doesn’t matter to me if the ’69 Mets World Series championship was a miracle or not, to use a frivolous example. All that matter to me is that the resurrection was.

Because it was the ultimate sacrifice, the Son of God, expressly offered up to God for your sins. It was the ultimate, perfect act of worship. No other comes close.
One way to think of it is as a gift Jesus gave to The Father. The ultimate gift, the ultimate act of love, the most valuable thing any of us possess, made all the more valuable because of who Jesus was.

On a more mechanical level, Jesus had to submit to the evil torture and death in order to conquer death and evil. He could not have conquered those by avoiding them just as an army on a battlefield doesn't conquer by avoidance. Conquest is done by engagement.

There have been volumes written about this, so please forgive my humble & incomplete explanation. I suggest you research this further, always keeping in mind God's infinite love for each of us.
https://www.catholicstop.com/archiv...s-instead-of-just-saying-youre-forgiven/

Honestly, it sounds like BS. Some sins should never be forgiven. God didnt have to allow his kid to die just so he could forgive us. If true, he could just forgive us, correct? I fail to understand why allowing your own kid to hang on a cross is a sacrifice for anything if you control the existence of man.
But then, guess he doesnt control anything due to free will.

Some people don't know what sin is.

My take....Because God is holy and just, Christ came to earth and accomplished His mission when He physically died on the cross and returned to life. Now, that it is an unbelievably loving action for God to do. If a mother was to dash out in front of an automobile to rescue her son, we would say that the mother loved her son. We might say that she was kind. Well, Jesus Christ “dashed out” and died on a cross to rescue us from possible hell. Now that is love and kindness. All that is left is for you and me to believe Him.

Are God and Jesus the same entity?

Many say "yes".

Was Jesus the son of Jesus?

God is omnicient and eternal. Correct?

Can the eternal die?

For what does death count if one is omnicient and fully aware one is God and can not die?

There are a few gaps in the logic. But it must be so as the Priests wrote it so two millenia past. And Constantine culled the mistakes.

If the Truth is as cut and dried as many claim?
Then why was the very nature of Christ up for debate at the Council of Nicea, 300 years after Christ's death. And the answers only arrived at by a majority vote of the 300 attendees.

Is it really The Truth when a consensus is only arrived at through a majority vote?

What of the dissenting opinions?

Fair enough, but we aren't The Father. The Father wants everybody to be with Him, joyous in Heaven. it's what we are made for.

I don't think God "allowed" it so much as Jesus gave it.
Some minds far better than mine believe that. But I don't. There are rules that even God can't violate. For example, God cannot make mistakes. He can't sleep. There are more, but remember, God is an infinite being. He is infinite love, truth, and beauty. He can't violate that. He can't be "non-infinite". And when we see these "rules" about sacrifice, we are seeing expressions of that infinity. For instance, an imperfect example would be why a fireman can't save a fire victim just by standing outside the burning house. Likewise, when we victims are surrounded, overcome by sin & death, Christ had to get in the midst of all that. To conquer death, He actually had to die and resurrect.

Yes, I think you are correct. At least He doesn't control us like marionettes. He'll intervene, but generally not in opposition to our wills. What Christ did, He did on His own free will.

As I said, this is something of a mystery, something we can meditate on. And it brings up another related mystery. Why did God require the Israelites not only to kill a spotless lamb, but to spread it's blood on their wooden doorframes and eat it's flesh so that God's angel of death would pass over their homes?