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There are no gaps in the “logic.” The gap/shortfall is found in your erroneous assertions.

There is certainly extra-Biblical evidence for Jesus; but it’s clearly a false assumption to assume that the New Testament authors…especially the eyewitnesses, who were documenting historical events…can’t be trusted because, as some skeptics have claimed, “they were biased.”

That’s like saying…outside of the multiple and independent eyewitnesses, and outside of the multiple and independent documents written by the eyewitnesses in the lifetimes of the eyewitnesses…”you have a very poor case.”

Put another way, does being at the scene of a crime automatically discredit your testimony as a witness…? Or…should it make you the most important person in the courtroom…?

The extra-Biblical historical writers who make references to Jesus and the apostle’s appear to have good historical information, and when you add up what they say about Jesus, you get a narrative that is congruent with the New Testament.

Yes, and especially when people from different continents say essentially the same thing.

I just don’t get it. A real, compassionate god would never allow young children and infants to be sexually abused, period. An infant can’t protect themself but if there was a real god he certainly could protect the kids.
Why would god toss an infant under the bus? And potentially ruin their life for decades to follow?

I think most of us…believers and non-believers alike…struggle with the realities of pain and suffering in the world. But pain and suffering in the world doesn’t disprove the existence of God. It only disproves the existence of a God that doesn’t allow pain and suffering in the world. The Christian God promised that there would be pain and suffering in the world.

When sin entered the world, it held the door open for pain and suffering.

I’m 69 years old. Been forced to go to church my entire childhood until I moved out at age 18. I struggled with believing in a god my entire life wanting to have faith. But at the end of the day my common sense brain just doesn’t believe. There are just way too many holes in the entire story to give it any credibility as far as I am concerned. I respect a believers right to think what they want.
In my mind no god, or any faith, would allow all the evil on our earth to continue.
The sky’s extend for millions of light years. Once alien sighting are confirmed most religious beliefs will go out the window.

Regarding the presence of pain and suffering in the world, I certainly struggle with some of the same stuff that you do.

To me the problem is that most Christians have a belief that God controls every aspect of life on earth. I've studied Christianity for decades and I have never seen that from scripture, just from Christian belief. The Text seems to suggest a God who created the earth, gave advice and perhaps help when asked, but left the running of it to humans.

From scripture it seems as if humans have a lease on the earth rather than total ownership. When the lease runs out God takes it back and deals with the wrongs committed.

CS Lewis wrote an excellent little book called the Problem of Pain which I’d suggest to anyone doubting and who has a sincerely open mind to belief.

SW,

I appreciate your honest and straightforward comments on what a “….real, compassionate god….” may or may not do.

There are a few viewpoints that have been relevant to me.

One is that God does indeed know our hearts. Each one of us…. He knows and at our judgment, He will judge honestly and correctly.

Having said that, I was one that was convinced that I was “OK” with God but later came to realize that I had created a “model” in my mind that was of my own design and making.

And of course, I judged myself to be “worthy” of God’s mercy. “Sure to pass and be found acceptable to God.”

This model does not pass a simple intellectual test….. I observed that almost everyone I knew had constructed their own model and that their models were, in some cases, very different from mine. Some that I met were, as best I could describe were uncaring criminals….. some were child molesters that did not seem the wrong in it.

Simply put some of the “judgment models” allowed for clearly wrong behavior …. Some models required “better” behaviors than my own model…..a model that I somehow convinced myself would be the one used on me and in my mind, I was sure to pass.

The problem was sin and that sin was mostly pride….. pride that I had in myself….. I was convinced that I was a “pretty good guy.”

Turns out I wasn’t such a good guy when I was confronted with my own failures and sin.


Anyway, that’s enough for now.



Btw…. A pretty strong biblical case can be made that there is an “age of accountability” and children and babies are not held accountable before that age….they go straight into the arms of God in Heaven.

For some of you….. no, this is not a justification for abortion. God is sovereign.

Actually Xtians claim Jesus was murdered so it is criminal in nature.
And thankfully today we have established evidentiary standards to
test claims of evidence for alleged murder and alleged resurrection
be it last week or two millennia ago.
But I understand why Xtian apologists would not like being under such
stringent scrutiny.



Sources from antiquity are not proof, they don't even meet the required minimum
on the evidentiary scale..At best you have flimsy claim anonymous writings from
non-witnesses. Applying xtian apologetic standards to the evidence does not meet
the burden of proof std. required in law.

Bart Ehrman Blog:

"Resurrection and other Miracles" July 30. 2018

"Today I want to show why multiple attestation can
*not* be used to support the resurrection of Jesus."

What is an Xtian apologist?

Those who come to the defence of their faith.
Typically they throw logic and common sense
out the window and apply their own irrational
arguments backed by special pleading.

Antler's posts are saturated with such,
but he just buries his head in the sand
and keeps blurting it out.


I made my comment in relation to 'Miracle on the Hudson',
For the record , do you see that event as a miracle?

So you are saying God should punish the bad people and bless all the good people? Miracles would only happen to save the good people from the bad people.

That is a nice model, but certainly not realistic. I don't know why God allows bad things to happen to good people, and I still don't know how a magnet works, but you can't tell me it doesn't work. You also can't tell me how a magnet works...

That's embarrassing. Historians have uncovered a memorandum in 1390 by Bishop Pierre d'Arcis, stating that the shroud was a fraud and he even knew the artist and how the shroud was painted. Odd that scripture would also omit mention of such an important "historical" piece of "evidence". Irrespective, a blood stained cloth would not prove a resurrection.

These days we have bleeding Mary statues - the miracles continue (well, after someone refills the statues anyway).

Shrapnel might see medical diagnostic MRI
(magnetic resonance imaging) as black magic.

So how does your analysis make you better than me or anyone else, for that matter, that doesn't agree with you?

I would bet a dollar, you don't know how an MRI works either, you just accept the results and take someone else's word on how it happens.

Just because you don't know, doesn't mean inserting a god is an answer - substitute a mystery with a bigger mystery. God is still an invalid response.

Closet or flaming Phaq preachers