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The facts are simple, Christianity as with any other religion, rests on faith. Religion is a matter of faith, not facts, science or philosophical inquiry... belief in science isnt an act of faith? seriously? Yes, seriously. Faith and science are opposites. Science requires actual observations, questioning, testing and verifying results, embracing falsification.....faith on the other hand involves believing what is written in old scrolls by people who had a far poorer understanding of the world and its place in the Cosmos. No, nothing like the same. Not even close. so when you reject a notion based on an other than natural basis and accept a notion based on science , havent you exchanged your belief? That's not how science works. It's not how logic works. You are imposing your own terms and conditions. science and logic dont impose their own conditions ? science uses random comparison's rather than controlled conditions to arrive at a hypothesis ? Our creator , created the heavens and the earth versus The Grande Bang ,your beliefs incorporate one or the other as fact , no? Seen under the same light secularism is as much a religion as Christianity isnt it.?
.... like tears in the rain
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Now what's your position on the 'Miracle on the Hudson'? try this on. "an effect or extraordinary event in the physical world that surpasses all known human or natural powers." Unfortunately for you NTSB ,Airbus and global Airline pilots have more rational explanations backed by facts...Nothing supernatural in it. You could start with the NTSB findings, But your Xtian apologetic frame of mind would struggle outside of its little bubble. my response had nothing to do with the Hudson incident , I'm trying to establish a definition for miracle that we are both comfortable with. miracle's are fiction or the inverse arent definitions, they're statements. you weren't forthcoming when I asked for a definition of miracle. I wonder why?
.... like tears in the rain
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To doubt and question fantastic claims that are made without the support of evidence is good thing. particularly when it pertains to global warming more so when it pertains to climate change man made pathogens which made requisite a vaccine to impede it wiping out humanity might also fit under this heading.
.... like tears in the rain
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Skeptics repeat their mantra that “No first hand accounts exist of the resurrection.” They are referring to the actual act of the resurrection itself. But ‘many’ firsthand accounts exist of the resurrected Jesus. There are firsthand accounts of Jesus’ death, and there was no doubt that Jesus was dead. And the resurrected Jesus appeared many times to multiple eyewitnesses, they ate with Him, and they touched Him. The many firsthand accounts of the resurrected Jesus…who appeared many times to multiple eyewitnesses…is pretty solid evidence of Jesus’ resurrection. The firsthand accounts of Jesus’ death, and the firsthand accounts of Jesus’ burial, and the many firsthand accounts of the resurrected Jesus are all collectively pretty solid evidence of His resurrection.
Every day on this side of the ground is a win.
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But your Xtian apologetic frame of mind
would struggle outside of its little bubble.
Last edited by AKA_Spook; 02/01/23.
.... like tears in the rain
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Mman….
Typical of you…. More dodging ….. the issue I raised was the certainly bogus D’arcy letter yet you dodge the issue.
You make claims and then refuse to even attempt to:justify your claims when they are exposed as just more fabricated baloney.
Meh, typical troll and a not a very smart one either.
The tax collector said: “Lord Jesus, have mercy on me, a sinner.” Jesus said he went home “justified.”
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M9mm,
We have another case of Xtians writing their own
script contrary to actual scripture. I thought you said scripture couldn't be trusted? Scripture can't be trusted, but you go one further and twist scripture to suit your own apologetics. The Shroud is one strip, the Sudarium, a cloth around his head was a chin band used to keep the jaw closed. Other strips, mentioned in John’s Gospel would have been a few strips of linen used as ties, to bind hands and feet or to tie a shroud around a body. Have you ever dealt with even a dead animal? One in rigor mortis? You'd understand the need for bindings. The difference between you & I is that I don't have to pick at every last detail, especially when the great preponderance of evidence shows the truth of the passage.
Politics is War by Other Means
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To doubt and question fantastic claims that are made without the support of evidence is good thing. To ignore relevant evidence is the sign of a dishonest and biased investigator.
The tax collector said: “Lord Jesus, have mercy on me, a sinner.” Jesus said he went home “justified.”
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Yes, seriously. Faith and science are opposites. One man's science is another man's faith. What one man, a scientist, observed in a laboratory, I take on faith. I wasn't there with the scientist when he saw what he claims to have seen. I believe what he tells me based on things like his good name, how his story matches up with my experience and how his story fits with the testimony of others. Science and faith are not opposites. Faith is how we avoid re-inventing the wheel every day and move on in knowledge.
Politics is War by Other Means
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The facts are simple, Christianity as with any other religion, rests on faith. Religion is a matter of faith, not facts, science or philosophical inquiry... belief in science isnt an act of faith? seriously? Yes, seriously. Faith and science are opposites. Science requires actual observations, questioning, testing and verifying results, embracing falsification.....faith on the other hand involves believing what is written in old scrolls by people who had a far poorer understanding of the world and its place in the Cosmos. No, nothing like the same. Not even close. I will note again, that you are using your own self serving definition of “faith.” No, I am not. You first note and your every 'note' following is a poor rationale in defense of faith: just as it is defined in the dictionary in relation to religion and in Hebrews (a self justifying belief). Seems we have gone over this in the past and you refuse to accept a biblical definition of faith and where faith originates from. We have gone over it multiple times. You were wrong the first time and wrong every time you offered your flawed rationale. Faith is not “….believing what is written in old scrolls by people who had poor understanding….the Cosmos.” Holy Smokes....something is believed, Be it Christian theology or what is written in the Quran, GIta or whatever.....as there is no evidence to support extraordinary supernatural claims, these beliefs are a matter of faith....they are believed on faith/ Which is why a religion is called a faith. As I have told you before, you do not characterize Christian doctrine accurately….I conclude you are either ignorant or being purposefully deceitful….. perhaps both. No, that's you. You keep insisting on things that have been debunked over and over, you do it regardless of any evidence or explanation. faith (feɪθ) n 1. strong or unshakeable belief in something, esp without proof or evidence 2. a specific system of religious beliefs: the Jewish faith. 3. (Theology) Christianity trust in God and in his actions and promises 4. (Theology) a conviction of the truth of certain doctrines of religion, esp when this is not based on reason https://www.thefreedictionary.com/faithSee, you just did it again….you still have no idea about “faith” ….. a question for you…. In the Bible where does faith c some from? This is relevant because you are using a secular definition and trying to apply it to biblical context. You simply don’t have a clue….. Anyway, gone to Texas for a week….. you may continue to stumble around in the dark.
The tax collector said: “Lord Jesus, have mercy on me, a sinner.” Jesus said he went home “justified.”
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These questions go all the way back to conversations between Nicodemus and Jesus.
Some biblical scholars argue Nicodemus was the Jordan Peterson of his time. He was wicked smart.
He had conversations with Jesus about the validity of the miracles being talked about. Although some would say he doubted to a degree, he respected Jesus and even called him "teacher"
In the end, Nicodemus would send 75 pounds of spices to pay for Jesus' burial.
Jesus never gave him "proof" only asked him to believe.
Asking the question is never a problem. Asking the question with disdain towards those that do believe is where things get spicy.
I also agree that some evangelical folks can say too much.
In the case of Nicodemus and Jesus' conversation, Jesus never said too much or too little.
That is where I wished more Christians were. Live by example and not by sight.
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These questions go all the way back to conversations between Nicodemus and Jesus.
Some biblical scholars argue Nicodemus was the Jordan Peterson of his time. He was wicked smart.
He had conversations with Jesus about the validity of the miracles being talked about. Although some would say he doubted to a degree, he respected Jesus and even called him "teacher"
In the end, Nicodemus would send 75 pounds of spices to pay for Jesus' burial.
Jesus never gave him "proof" only asked him to believe.
Asking the question is never a problem. Asking the question with disdain towards those that do believe is where things get spicy.
I also agree that some evangelical folks can say too much.
In the case of Nicodemus and Jesus' conversation, Jesus never said too much or too little.
That is where I wished more Christians were. Live by example and not by sight. I like it...thanks
Illegitimi non carborundum
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Mman….
Typical of you…. More dodging ….. the issue I raised was the certainly bogus D’arcy letter yet you dodge the issue.
You make claims and then refuse to even attempt to:justify your claims when they are exposed as just more fabricated baloney.
Meh, typical troll and a not a very smart one either. You got that ass-backwards. You dismiss evidence that shows the falsehoods of your beliefs, which is dishonest. Lying to defend your faith - I don't think that is acceptable according to your instruction manual. At least you're not alone in that regard, many of your team members do that.
Whatever you said...everyone knows you are a lying jerk. That's a bold assertion. Point out where you think I lied. Well?
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The facts are simple, Christianity as with any other religion, rests on faith. Religion is a matter of faith, not facts, science or philosophical inquiry... belief in science isnt an act of faith? seriously? Yes, seriously. Faith and science are opposites. Science requires actual observations, questioning, testing and verifying results, embracing falsification.....faith on the other hand involves believing what is written in old scrolls by people who had a far poorer understanding of the world and its place in the Cosmos. No, nothing like the same. Not even close. so when you reject a notion based on an other than natural basis and accept a notion based on science , havent you exchanged your belief? That's not how science works. It's not how logic works. You are imposing your own terms and conditions. science and logic dont impose their own conditions ? science uses random comparison's rather than controlled conditions to arrive at a hypothesis ? Our creator , created the heavens and the earth versus The Grande Bang ,your beliefs incorporate one or the other as fact , no? Seen under the same light secularism is as much a religion as Christianity isnt it.? Science gathers information, experiments and tests its results. That is basically the scientific method. Philosophy examines claims and propositions according to their own terms and references in order to understand and determine their validity, that there are no contradictions, inconsistencies, that the premises relate to the real world and not fiction. Religion tells us to believe. Believe because it is so written in the bible, the Qur'an, the Gita....in religion we are told that Mohammed is a prophet of God, Brahman is the creative principle of the universe, Jesus is the son of God.....yet philosophically these claims are not consistent, they contradict each other, where logic tells us that all of these things cannot be true. That is the difference between philosophy and religion, science and faith.
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Religion tells us to believe. Actually , religion allows you to believe. It puts forth a premise for you to accept or reject. There may be a religion that says you must believe these parameters , but Ive yet to hear of it. Why are there laws of physics?
.... like tears in the rain
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Religion tells us to believe. Actually , religion allows you to believe. It puts forth a premise for you to accept or reject. There may be a religion that says you must believe these parameters , but Ive yet to hear of it. Why are there laws of physics? Religion allows us to believe? Do you believe in Islam's teachings? Do you believe in Mohommad as a prophet of god? The gods of Hinduism? The point is; why do you believe? What is reason or justification for believing?
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Religion tells us to believe. Actually , religion allows you to believe. It puts forth a premise for you to accept or reject. There may be a religion that says you must believe these parameters , but Ive yet to hear of it. Why are there laws of physics? Religion allows us to believe? Do you believe in Islam's teachings? Do you believe in Mohommad as a prophet of god? The gods of Hinduism? The point is; why do you believe? What is reason or justification for believing? So here is the thing, If I was born and raised in a Muslim home, there is a good chance I would likely believe in Mohammad, I haven’t tried out every religion out there. And frankly much of Karan (sp) is the same as the Bible. Denying that is not transparent. I believe because I was raised to believe. Now, I no longer practice Catholicism.
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It's possible to question whatever we were raised to believe.
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Capt Sully's story doesn’t only demonstrate the existence of true heroes, but of people who fully trust their experience and intuition to perform bold feats. Nothing in that indicates a 'miracle'. Maybe not, but it is a miracle your parents didn’t choke you as a kid…
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One thing for certain, no one has ever changed their core religious beliefs based on online forum debates.
My biggest fear is when I die my wife will sell my guns for what I told her they cost.
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