Home Forums Reloading Big Game Rifles modern powders in the .270 Win

I've already explained to you that deer don't know anything about ballistics and so using them as authority is meaningless. Obviously you also have a poor command of American English. If someone happens to call themselves a rifle hunter, that doesn't mean that they hunt rifles. Rather, it means they hunt with a rifle as opposed to a bow, a handgun or a shotgun etc. Perhaps American English is your second language? Either that or you are just plain stupid. Saying you are a better deer hunter than me when you have no idea how much deer hunting I do, or how successful I am, is another example of your stupidity.

Perhaps in absolute terms that is reasonable. However, relative to what other cartridges and/or bullets and powders can do, it is not very good. Also, in terms of efficiency, such a large case burning so much powder for 2750 fps is not good, relative to what other combinations can achieve.

Such a large case?

Long action and holds around 62 grains of powder, compared to the short action .308 based cases (including Creedmoor etc).

If you ask me, the .270 Win. is close to a "magnum". Put a 26" barrel on it like a 7mag., find the right powder, and get out your chronograph. A 22 inch barrel and wimpy data won't help any bullet weight.

If one is only getting 2800 from a 270 with H4831 and a 150, one needs to either add more powder, or replace the barrel on the rifle. Perhaps both.

As Seafire said, you can not get enough H4831 in the case to hurt anything with a 150. Fill it up to the top and listen to the kernels crunch as you seat the bullet. Been there, done that with the '06 and 190s.

Seriously, Hogdgon #26 says 150 gr bullet, 58 gr H 4831 at 3015 fps and 52600 CUP.
Nosler #8 says 55 gr H4831 for 2900 fps.

With my experience, if using only standard cup and core bullets, I would be looking for 2950 fps with 150s and H 4831. I would bet the primer pockets would be good for ten reloads.

If loading mono-metals or partitions, I would call 2850 fps good enough.

The SAAMI pressure limits for the .270 are 52000 CUP or 65000 PSI. Hodgdon online: 55.7 grains H4831sc gives 2804 fps and 51,200 CUP in a 24" barrel.

Actually the SAAMI max. average for the .270 Win. is 54,000 CUP

In reality I have found 2800 fps to be a very useful speed for bullets 120 grains and up.

So the 308 case holding 12 grains less of powder, more like 10 is much smaller?

The maximum published online Hodgdon loads are maximum in my rifle. If I go half a grain higher I get pressure signs e.g. stiff bolt lift. Even with 130's, if using Nosler Accubonds, I have to drop down to 59 grain H4831sc from my usual 59.5 grains (60 grains being the maximum online Hodgdon load). Perhaps the SAAMI maximum pressure limit has been revised from 52,000 CUP to 54,000 CUP if you're saying it is 54,000 CUP? Sure, in some rifles you can safely go slightly higher that maximum published loads...but not in mine. As previously stated, I get around 2750 fps with the Hodgdon maximum online published load with 150's. Sure you can sacrifice handiness and put a 26" barrel on a .270, you could put a 28" barrel on if you want and get even more velocity. But who wants to carry around a .270 with a 26" barrel? And if you can safely load the 150's with H4831sc to around 2900 fps, you'd be able to load the 140's and 130's faster than average, which would mean that the large difference in velocity between the 130's, 140's versus the 150's with H4831 is still there. Also, they can't make a 150 grain .270 projectile than gets maximum b.c. in a 10 twist barrel and that stabilizers in a 10 twist barrel at the same time, that has a good b.c. However, they can make a 130 or a 140 grain projectile that has a reasonable b.c. for its weight that does stabilise and also gets maximum b.c. in a 10 twist. So you have the problem of H4831sc not being able to push the 150's anywhere close to what it can push the 130's and 140's, plus the relatively poor b.c. of 150 grain projectiles that run properly (get their maximum b.c. and also stabilize) in a 10 twist barrel. Now if you just want the 150's in a .270 for close range where b.c. doesn't matter, then fine, but there are better options than a .270 with a 24" barrel and a long action for close range work.

12 grains divided by 50 grains is 24 percent. To me, 24 percent is a reasonable difference.

I get a lot more than just 10 reloads out of brass fired with H4831SC in either 270 or 06.

Just to prove a point, I've gotten over 25 reloads out an 06, with the primer pockets still tight, with loads of 62.5 grains of
H4831SC and a 220 grain bullet, or 65 grains with a 200 grain bullet. Non Magnum primers used. Will tell ya this tho, the load is full enough, if it is NOT CRIMPED, it'll back right out of there as the brass decompresses. With a 220 grain, the velocity hovers around 2950 to 2975 depending on brand of brass used.

If anyone remembers when I posted this long ago, I was getting flamed all over the place., for like 20 pages. That was until "Mike" from Nosler logged in and supported my findings. I was being asked if I had a pressure measure, which was NO of course.. so the first thing they did, was do the same to "Mike". His answer, why yes I do, I have an entire pressure lab available. He left his phone number with an invitation to anyone who wanted to call him on the subject. I noted it was a 541 area code here in Oregon. So I called it, and the secretary answered it "Nosler Bullet How May I Direct Your Call?"

That 20 page long thread of flaming me, was on page 3 in about 48 hours after that. " Mike " at the time was the Chief Ballistician at Nosler. He asked how I came to know what I did, and told him I had just worked it up at the load bench, when someone had asked what was the max velocity capable out of an 06 with a 200 grain bullet. I thought about it and decided to find the answer out for myself. Consulted some reload manuals and noted the pressure posted on regular loads ya see, and noted it was a good bit lower than what max SAAMI specs were for the 06. Did the 270 next, but no one questioned that after the end results of the 06 thread.

So there ya go...

Jebuus. I only thought I was a masochist.

I went to 63 gr H4831 with the Hornady 190 btsp in a Win 670 30-06. That SOB just about killed on both ends. The only rig and load I ever "scoped" my eyebrow with. Shooting up hill from a prone position on a downhill slope.

I thought I was doing good to get 63 gr in the LC 67 brass. I laid the brass against the spindle on a vibratory tumbler as I poured the powder in.

I played a bit with IMR4831 and that 190. With IMR 4831, I hit 2900 fps with the 190 from a 22 inch barrel. But I only shot enough of them to develop a charge wt vs velocity curve for the powder.

Yes, that is how I developed my load data. Interpolation, and plotting lots of powder wt/velocity curves. A couple wildcats with no data available, the 260 rem before data was in the books, 7mm STW with just Layne Simpson's original Shooting Times data to work from. I even measured hundreds of cases for expansion, until I came to the same conclusion as Denton. The signal to noise ratio is to low to gain any meaningful data.

l always dreamed of owning a pressure trace. But I don't do enough of that type experimentation today to make one worth while.

H 4831 will do anything that can be done with medium to heavy weight bullets in the 25-06, 270, 280, or 30-06. Unless you are running them through a Remington 742. That bitch would not keep five on a 9" paper plate at 100 yds until I tried some 3031 with the 165 nbt I was using. Then it became a hunting rifle again.

I had 300 pieces of brass for the '06, and over about 15 years shot thousands of rounds through them. I don't think I ever lost one to a loose primer pocket.

As I lost interest in the '06, they all got turned into 25-06 or 270 ammo and given away.

So you are advancing the academic theory of, "dead-er?"

Like women, am not too impressed with the new variety all y'all think is so great.

The old kind works just fine, and has for almost a hundred years, and the women much longer than that.


And killin' game at 3-400 yards with <60 grn. of powder, v. 70 or 80 grn's?

Is efficient.

And a fast-twist .270 will extend that out to 600 yards.




GR

Theory of "dead-er": No, just the theory of using maximum point-blank range with a scope that you don't have to play around with turning the dials (and wasting valuable time) before you take the shot at game up to around 400 yards, and having a scope that only weighs around 11 or 12 ounces instead of 1 1/2 pounds.

Agree.


My unassuming .270Win/150 gr. GS/2800 fps. load has a MPBR(+/-3") of ~ 270 yards, and 12" low top of back hold at 350, and light under top of back hold past that.

No dialing for me.

Just barbecues.




GR

You guys still discussing/arguing about this? Even factory, semi round nosed 150gr ammo will put them where you want at 400 yards. Very easily, I might add.

Here's the most recent example I can share with you: Super old rifle, using a 13 oz scope that does not get "dialed":



Confirm zero at 100:


200 yards:


300 yards:


400 yards:


Crap factory ammo, who needs high bc right:


So you are trying to tell us that a more sleek 150gr handload will not work? I am still going to call BS man. The proof is right there in front of you, on paper.

The 7" circle on the paper represents a small vital zone. There is no deer walking the face of the earth that is going to absorb one of those 150gr pills and live to tell about it. It will be dead, or "deader" if you prefer.
Now, where I used to hunt, elk were mainly on the menu. So I personally feel more comfortable with a 150gr pill in my 270 winchesters. I used to load 150gr Nosler partitions with about 60gr's of RL26 and get around 3,000 fps. That combination is plenty for any elk I've ever seen. That's not saying a 130 won't work either, but I still prefer the 150, even if it's starting velocity is 2,800 fps. YMMV..

Are you still arguing about this...we finished talking about this ages ago? It's better to use maximum point blank range by aiming in the centre of reticle with a 130 or 140 until about 350 yards, then use hash marks from about 350. If the reticle is in the second focul plane, then you don't have changes in range corresponding to each hash mark up to 350 caused by different magnification (because you are aiming in the center of the reticle). Also, the further you get out, the less precise is your aiming when not corresponding with a hash mark because the rate of fall with a low b.c. 150 at 2750 -2800 fps is greater than with a reasonable b.c 130 or 140 driven much faster. If you're hunting elk at longer distance, I'd put away the .270 Win and grab the .338...at least until I can run an 8 twist .270. And it's not that a 130 or 140 kills better than a 150, it's that it's harder to get the low b.c. 150 in the exact right place when you are shooting game at longer distances.

Whew!