Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire College Degrees

Holy crap, this thread covers lot of what I've been through, myself and my kids. A lot of deep thinking and I'm not even on the toilet.

I come from a farming family and most of my family back home still farms. They are so God-blessed happy and satisfied that I smile for them every day. By God most days I wish I was still there. I was "the one" that had the school smarts, was always at the top of the class and good at math, and should get out of farming. But I loved growing up in small farm USA and the country boy life. But, I sort of knew my future wasn't there and went away and got a BSEET (yes, the cheap one) and got into electronics industry. Turns out that knowing how to work your ass off and wake up early every morning and get to work does pay off, even among the "learned class".

I see I'm using quotes way too much.

Best thing you can do for your kids is to visibly be a hard worker that takes your job seriously. Don't be a whiner and a bitcher about everything that somebody has supposedly done to you. Make your kids be serious about their future and not saving the world.

Simple philosophy, the world doesn't need a lot of great men and women. The world needs good people, good parents, good friends, good neighbors, and good and serious members of their community. That is what makes a great society.

So my story is that now after 40 years of grinding that I am comfortably well off and ready to retire. Yes, I am a boomer (tail end) and I can honestly say [bleep] you to those that blame people like me that their life sucks. Your problem is in the mirror. I worked very hard to get where I am at and didn't tell you to do anything. Boomers gave you every convenience that you sit in your daddy's basement and enjoy.

I have 4 kids, all with college degrees, and working in their profession. Because I think (hope) I rubbed off on them a bit. They have practical degrees that are in need. Yes, even the one that is following his dream in the music industry. He is eyes wide open and knows what he is on for, loves every minute of it.

And those that bitch about the educated, I wonder if you want your heart surgeon doing your bypass to have a JUCO degree?

There is a place for everyone. Many are extremely talented and thank God they pursue their gifts to the highest possible level. Many are hard working and talented physically and thank God they get busy and keep the world running. Respect all of them.

Find your way, guide your children to find their way. Don't let them be foolish

Funny you mention that.

Growing up, never heard my dad complain about work, going to work or what went on at work.

Need a sign for folks like us

WORK. IT'S WHAT WE DO

One thing to consider is having your kids take an aptitude test while still in high school and before applying to college. We did it with our two kids. It was a 2-day battery - manual dexterity, color perception, critical thinking, writing, match, visual acuity, etc. etc. They should play to their strengths, not their imaginary skills.

All the really bad ideas that are sinking our country today came from college graduates....

If you want to put a point on it?

Correlation is not causation.

If you had a decent education in statistics, you’d know you have to control for other variables that determine outcome. Things like ability, work ethic, ambition.

Compare the lifetime earnings of the high school Valedictorian with the 4.7 GPA, the full ride scholarship, two parents at home modeling work ethic and social skill to the 10th grade drop out single mother living in a single wide with a leaky roof and her tweaker mother and her 19th live in boyfriend this decade?

Yeah, the educated one will do a bit better, I’ll wager.

Now, compare two smart, ambitious, well adjusted kids, one going to college to be a librarian, and the other, I don’t know, becomes a truck driver.

After five years, the kid that now drives for Walmart or UPS is earning 100K a year, more than 90% of college grads. The college grad is squeezing by on 50 or 60 K and is making student loan payments out of that.

Hell, my truck driver, without a high school degree, is making more than twice what one of my degreed farm managers makes. And he’s harder to replace for sure.

In other words, the degreed farm manager can raise all the fish in the world, at the lowest cost per unit,







but they're not getting to market without the truck driver?

Something like that.

But neither of my farm managers want his job, either!

Which rings up another point that you made earlier. When you talk about success, money is a varying part of that, according to the individual. You and I just want to be outside and be where we can see the turkeys, the elk, the deer and whatnot while we earn our keep. Others can’t live without the ‘Benz, the McMansion and the trophy wife. Choices.

That’s where an education brings value, because it allows for more choices of where and what kind of work. If it was just money, well, the best paid profession in this country is…..sales. No degree needed in most cases. Go sell medical devices, and make more than the doc with his 10-14 years of post high school education.

Had a wise man tell me once: Sales is the easiest low paying job you can get......and the hardest high paying job. After 45 years in the business I have to agree. I think it was Northwestern who did a study on how much effort (mental not physical) went into various jobs. The hardest was a brain surgeon. Next was a professional salesman.

Let me qualify that sales thing. Retail sales dealing with the public is an absolute pit and you will watch yourself starve. Industrial sales is a whole nuther thing. Sis was the class valedictorian, but I spent most of my time looking out the window, so I wasn’t the scholastic shining light that she was. Dad and mom saw the direction that I was heading and dad had plenty of contacts around town to get me summer jobs in the canning factory, the paper mill and the packing house. That was all the “education” that I needed to know that I didn’t want to be there. When I got out of high school, if you were upright and warm, you were going to Southeast Asia. It dawned on me that it was going to be the Tet Offensive or the University of Wisconsin as my only two choices. Fast forward four years and the Fortune 500 company that I signed on with didn’t care what I had a degree in, only that I had one. I’m sure that the union guys that worked out in the shop made the same kind of bucks that I did, but they worked a hell of a lot harder than I was. That company trained me nicely and from then on it was product and industry knowledge to get to a management level position.
It was pretty funny when my kid told me, “Dad, your job must be easy. All you’ve got to do is talk.”

People with college degrees don’t have to do the physical labor as a rule. Hard work takes a toll on a workers body.

Hanco, I agree, but siting on your fat arse all day in a high stress environment and a 60 minute commute to the ‘burbs in stop and go traffic comes with its own physical penalties.

^^^^^This in spades

A friend of mine many years ago went to a "prestigious" engineering school in NJ to get a IT degree. He was in the hole for 250k . He could easily have gone to a "lesser" school and accomplished the same thing.

My Dr came from a blue collar background and graduated from WFU and went to their medical school. His wife also went to WFU and is a pharmacist. 250k does not even begin to cover what the tuition loan for both.

When I was young, not working wasn't an option. I worked as an apprentice carpenter. After receiving my journeyman card, I lost interest in the trade.
After busting my ass logging a couple years, I went to work as a millwright apprentice. I worked at that trade, in one aspect or another until age 44. The company I worked for, offered to pay 100% tution if I went to college, and earned a degree. I accepted the offer, went on salary and started college!
The outcome was a degree in business management. The pay and retirement increased substantially.
With that said, I don't think I would have finished the same courses, as a 20 year old. I couldn't see the carrot at that age.
Does a degree really make one smarter than others no. What it does for most is open doors, one would never see without the collage degree! Having the degree allowed me to, increase wages, retirement, less manual labor, and to travel for the company. I'm glad I made the choice of going to college. Just my experience!

Along the lines of what I told my boy.

There’s a lot of doors in life, son. You’re not going to open them all. But if they stay closed I want it to be because you didn’t want to open them, not because they were locked to you.




P

Good advice P

Real close to what I told my children, Pharm. I tried a few other jobs, I didn't mention, before settling down. I just look at those as experience. College opened lots of doors, that made life way more exciting, and affordable!!

Great advice on this thread. I might add that people should research financial leverage early on - it changes how one looks at a dollar.

We have about 120 salesmen in my company, the guy in the office next to me pulls in $1.5m a year easily. At our conference last year they ranked the top 10 salesmen in our company, he was number 8, so 7 guys pulled in more than him. I'd say the average salary is probably $300K a year. If you aren't making that, then you won't be employed very long because you aren't hitting your target number.

I used to think those guys knew more than I did ,they were this rare breed of person - and after hanging out with them for a few years, I know I could do it and if I was 10 years younger I probably try. The young man that works for me, I'm telling him to move on and go into Sales for us, his life will change dramatically. He busts his ass and puts in long hours. Might as well get paid handsomely for it.

That said, one thing about being a salesman, there is no day off. When the engineers like me are having a 4th of July cookout with neighbors, the Salesman is trying to see if there is just one more decision maker at the customer account he can get in touch with. When I am taking 2 weeks off at Xmas to spend time with family, they are taking customers out to dinner or handing out logo branded gifts to the project teams. You have to be all in, every day.