Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunting Rifles APPLICATION OF PRACTICAL BIG GAME CARTRIDGES

A corollary to Jeff's thread about owning just one rifle, under what conditions would a .308 Win/30-'06 class cartridge be insufficient? Assuming hunting skills allowing a stalk to within 350 to 400 yards and decent shot placement, what North American game save big bears would escape a bonded projectile from such a cartridge?

I would hesitiaate to use it on a large moose at the extreme edge of the range you mentioned, but for normal shots it would be just fine. Taking the big bears out of the equation made it, for this duscussion, a great all arounder... actually, it is a great all arounder REGARDLESS of what we internet junkies -proffesionals or not- think about it. Phil aka 458WIN has shot a few of the big bears with a 30/06 and with premium bullets it will sure do. I shoot 300Mags and bigger because I LIKE to more than because I have to if the truth be told. I do not see the 308 as being the full equal of the 30/06 however.

There were a group of cartridges introduced in the late 1800's which performed superbly on game even with the simply constructed bullets of the time. More modern cartridge often only duplicate what these cartridges can do.
Old cartridges such as the 6.5x55 and 7x57 were and are excellent cartridges for medium sized game at practical game ranges. There newer counterparts, the 260 Remington and 7mm-08 do the same things in the same way.
The 30-40 Krag and 303 British are the very reliable forerunners to the 308 Winchester. With modern propellents and in strong actions the performance of all three is virtually identical. The 8x57 is one of the really good, if underappreciated game cartridges. With 200 grain bullets at over 2500 fps, it will handle any North American game very well.
When I was a kid, I watched a film wherein a lady took a big grizzly using a 300 Savage with 180 grain Silvertips. It appeared to work just fine. She broke that bear down with one in the shoulder just like others did with their magnums.
There is no doubt; with well placed shots, this class of cartridge is adequate for ANY North American game. The 308 and it's larger predecessor, the 30/06, are indeed parctical cartridges and will still kill anything you want to hunt in North America and most of what you might hunt elsewhere. GD

... and modern bullets are truly miracles of technology. Whatever the .308 was in 1950-whatever, it's a whole lot more now! In addition to the 150 fps or so it's picked up (witness guys seeing over 2900 fps with 165's), if you use a bullet like a TSX you will be most likely looking at an exit wound in just about any critter you shoot, from most angles you shoot them!

Or so I'm told...

Having said all that, I would still opt for more gun than a .308 if I thought I might be taking a 400-yard shot on a moose. Just because I can, and I guess because it seems like more is gonna be better, at least up to the point where "more" starts to compromise shootability and the size and weight of the rifle.

-jeff

I bet you if you reduce the range restriction to 300yards instead of 400yards would remove alot of hesitation??

greydog,

I remember looking at an old Herder's(sp?) catalog, I believe, that was circa 1955. In it was a Winchester ad for the new .308 Win. The ad indicated it was sufficient for all North American game including grizzly. But that was at a time when North American big game routinely fell to non-magnums. Since the introduction of steroids to the sport, big game have bulked up requiring much more powerful rounds to fell 'em cleanly!

At the turn of the 20th century, our brothers to the north used the .303 British for everything, including griz. Musta had smaller, less mean griz back then.

safariman, I do agree that with the heaviest of bullets the '06 does provide slightly more. But in real world applications, at most we're writin' about mere yards difference. With bullets up to 180 grains, they're so damn close to opine there ain't a spit of difference between 'em, and nearly all hunting is with bullets in this range. Finally, the Speer catalog indicates that with the 150 grain projectile, the .308 Win actually produces higher velocity than the '06! This is based upon the physical properties of the two cases. But for all intents and purposes, there really ain't a difference between the two when we're discussin' practical huntin' conditions. And while the .308 Win has the accuracy edge, in huntin' situations the edge ain't gonna add up to a hill of beans!

I do love the '06, but I also love the performance of a .308 Win out of a short action. Damn gubment got 'er right when it came up with the 7.62x51 NATO!

leomort,

Actually you're right on target. I have a buddy who's a renowned hunter. He has harvested just about every North American species save the polar bear. He started with an '06 but moved up to a .300 WBY when he hunted Alaska. He told me that most hunters when confronted with a far off shot will contemplate how they're gonna make the shot. He told me that when he sees far off game his first thought is how he's gonna close the distance. He said most of his game was harvested at ranges of 150 yds or less. But when there's a good chance a shot of longer range must have to be attempted it's comforting to have a rifle chambered for a capable cartridge.

I have both .06 and .308. I don't use any of these specialty bullets,but I sure like how a 220 gr Sierra RN thumps and elk.
I don't shoot hardly anything at 300 yds, even 100 yds.

If my wife reads this post Im a dead man since my first rifle was a .308 and I complained I needed other stuff to do other things

I don't like the 308 simply because I don't like the 308;and besides it is not the 30/06. But to answer the orignal question, I don't think(it has been proven many times)that even the brown bear will survive a chest hit from a 30/06 with a good bullet.There is not much you can't do with it.

But.....a lot of experienced hunters DON'T use it.There must be a reason....

BobinNH,

But a whole lot more experienced hunters do use it! In fact, I can't recall how many hunters I have come across in Wyoming and other Rocky Mountain states who use the .308 Win for everything.

None of the hunters with whom I hunt use anything larger than the 7MM Rem Mag. But since my population of hunters is so tiny, it's of no inferential value. But I have talked to God knows how many hunters in the Rockies, and I swear I can't recall anyone using a big magnum.

I have backpacked into remote areas of Wyoming. The first year I carried a heavy 7MM Rem Mag. Ever since I have carried a Featherweight in .308 Win. Even when hunting from base camps, if I am going over mountains I take the lighter rifle. Where the air gets thin, I account for all weight I am carrying.

Y'know, come to think of it, I can't ever recall picking up old cases off the ground of magnum calibers, especially in Utah. But I have picked up plenty of .30-'06 and .270 Win cases. Again, not much scientific value, but what the heck???

So, there must be a reason why so many experienced hunters use the .308 Win & venerable .30-'06...

BobinNH,

Oops, I almost forgot to tell you about the group of Oklahoma hunters I came across in Colorado some years ago. They had switched to the .308 Win from the .270 Win because they believed heavier bullets worked better on elk. It worked for them...and I can't find fault with success!

That's been my observation which is why those are the only two BG cartridges I own.

2

Proof of the capabilities of the .308 Win:

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbt...owflat/Number/1711130/page/1#Post1711130

Mando: I agree with the rifle weight issue for sure.And I have no problems with the capability of either cartridge; just like the 06 better in 30 caliber.As for the heavier bullets of the 308 being an advantage,well.... I've dug enough 30,270, and 7mm bullets fired from the 06,270,and standard case 7mm's out of elk and deer carcasses(those that did not exit,of course), and looked at enough wound channels,to come to the conclusion that bullet construction had a lot more to do with performance than weight or caliber.

I'd consider the practical difference between a 30/06,308,and 270 pretty trifling,given equal placement and bullet construction. And a big 30 trumps them all if the bullet construction is good :), but that ain't the topic.If those guys are having problems with 270 bullets, they should use better bullets; I'm sure the problems would go away.

The Moose is about the easiest BG animal to take with a light rifle like a .308W, they absorb a lung shot, stand there awhile, slowly sink to the ground and die quietly. With a good rest and an appropriate bullet of 180 grs., I would never hesitate to shoot at a standing, un-aware Moose at up to 400 yds., been on too many Moose kills to worry about using either a .30-06 or .308 for this purpose.

The TWO situations, here in BC at least, where I really DO think that more gun is a sound practice and choose a .338WM-350NP setup are in Grizzly situations, where backpacking meat renders you vulnerable to a sudden attack and hunting the mandatory 6pt. Elk in our typically heavy forest cover.

The Elk ARE VERY tough in terms of bullet strike and can get into gawdawful places and you OFTEN havce to shoot at a departing bull, AFTER you check his antlers in dense brush. There, I think that the big .338 slug WILL make a difference as do many very experienced Elkists I know.

Overall, I have used both .308W and .30-06 rifles as my only hunting rifle AND for "protection" while working solo in remote Grizzly country quite often and would again. In fact, with 27 BG rifles from .264WM to .375H&H on hand now, I am considering building a light .30-06 on a Brno 21H action I have for my all-around backpack hunting rifle as my .338s and 9.3s get a little heavier as the years roll by.

Magnums DO have certain advantages, the .300s and .338s are EXCELLENT for BC, IF, one can shoot them well, but, the .06 has and will continue to do the job and that extra 1/2 lb. of rifle weight is NOT missed by my elderly shoulders!

BobinNH,

I do agree with that bullet construction is crucial as it causes penetration. The right bullet placed in vitals is the recipe for success.

+1. Real simple.Koutenay is right, too. Sometimes a big bullet, in the right place,is best of all.

For the circumstances you set up..The .308, 7x57, 280, 30-06, and many other calibers would work equally well...There is just not a lot of difference between a 7x57 or 7-08 and on up to a 7 MM Magnum...or maybe even the 300 magnums if the truth were known....

As to the .308, it IMO is a really nice round and will kill about anything on earth with a proper bullet and good shot placement..I have seen it kill a lot of culled elephants and buffalo.