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What do you mean by "constant need for forgiveness"?

If by that you mean a constant remembrance of grace, then I agree. If, however, you mean a constant guilt over sins, then you missed the point of grace.

"8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us."
1 John 1:8-10

A constant reminder of our weak human nature even during our walk of faith. Romans 6.

Do you believe that all of the specific particular work of Christ through His sinless life, sacrificial death and resurrection accomplished tangible spiritual benefits?

You left out verse 7 which is the one for Christians. You know, the one that says he cleanses us from all sin.

When Paul talked about nature and natural law, he is simply demonstrating that no man will have an excuse to say that there is no God. That’s not a new interpretation but rather‘s or conditional long hill, interpretation of that scripture. The knowledge of Christ comes through the word. The word must be preached. I forget if it’s Paul, or one of the other fossils that says how they believe in Leslie, hear the word an hour will they hear the word, unless they have a preacher.

as to the existential work of the Holy Spirit, the argument, but this is the way God communicates to all of mankind and especially believers comes in a great question. Is very easy to find example of an example of how people hear from God on an issue. Three people will “hear from God“ and yet each one of them will have a different interpretation of the saying that God was supposed to be telling them and these different interpretations being in conflict with each other.

Scripture from the beginning of Genesis to the end of revelation is quite explicit in teaching that God reveals himself through the Holy Spirit and the word concerning Christ. We really don’t have an option beyond that or we deviate from scriptural teaching.

Without question, scripture teaches that we are born and raised dead in our trespasses and sins. We have no remnant of God likeness within us. That is never taught in Scripture. that being the case and us being broken and falling humanity, even after coming to say it is irrational to think that we can somehow have random experiences from God that contradict scripture yet that is the common thing seen throughout modern Christianity in America.

Jesus's sacrifice was being born a human, his example of death and resurrection is of going home.

Kent

I thought we had established that already!

The entire letter was addressed to believers.

You would think so, but I think some have more faith in their sin than in their redemption. At least it seems like it when they always talk about sin but hardly mention redemption.

I'm led to believe the most important thing to keep in the forefront is the price paid for our redemption, and the following gift of the Holy Spirit.
It is the beginning of the walk of faith. The new man is not a servant to the old man.
But when we stumble, we must ask for support and forgiveness of our failures based on the conviction of the Spirit which resides inside us.
Yes, the greater price of sin has already been paid in full. The forgiveness is already there. But there will be an accounting of our actions during our walk with Christ as well.
Can we do it on our own? Maybe some reach that level of righteousness. I know I fall short daily. Prayer and supplication is the answer.

So you don’t believe that the very particular death burial and resurrection of Christ on a particular day for the sins of the world, had a very real physical implications for you spiritually?

I think it's important to make a distinction between the words sin and sinner. I don't think it's profitable for a saved person to think of himself as a sinner any longer. That's not at all saying we shouldn't realize that all saved people sin. It seems to me that to identify as a sinner is to forget the change that took place to make you a new creation. Saved people sin but that doesn't make them sinners in the same sense as the unsaved.

I'm not saying Christians should deny sinning, just that they should identify as a saint rather than as a sinner, placing more emphasis on the solution than the problem.

Huh?

Back in context... quote me Jesus saying we had to go to a church... you know like physically in a physical building with a cross on it, on a sunday.

Kent

Agree.

We no longer have a sin nature, but do mess up from time to time. David sinned but then he ran to the Lord. Saul sinned, but sought man. If our relationship with the Lord is thru our pastor or someone, like Saul with Samuel, we may end up about like he did.

Check out Rock Chuck's post on page 3. He mentioned Matt 7:21-23, where "Christians" pled their case before the Lord based on all they had "done" for Him... His reply, "I never knew you". It's hard not to feel some grief for those folk, doing good stuff for God and it not being of God.

Just as there are RINO's, there are also Christians in name only. They're ever learning, never coming to the knowledge of Truth.

Check out Jag's post on page 7 about the Ashbury phenomenon. You'll see how people react when the Holy Spirit descends on a place.

The Lord said He was coming for a church without spot or wrinkle. And, there is always that remnant. I guess we could label Christians in name only, CINO's.

Don't be a CINO. Know who and whose you are.

DF

Psalm 122:1

I was glad when they said to me,
“Let us go to the house of the Lord.”

James 5:14

Is anyone among you sick? Then he must call for the elders of the church and they are to pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord;

Luke 4:16

And He came to Nazareth, where He had been brought up; and as was His custom, He entered the synagogue on the Sabbath, and stood up to read.

Matthew 5:24

leave your offering there before the altar and go; first be reconciled to your brother, and then come and present your offering.


It's such a basic concept, like fasting, does it need to be worded as an "Thou shalt"?

Did Paul write letters to each individual in the areas he wrote to or did he write to churches? The churches that would read his letters to the congregations.

Romans 3 supports and explains redemption, to those who were subject to the Law as well as the Gentile. But to identify as a saint requires more. Much more. A righteous walk with Christ without additional sins occurring is fundamental.

The problem of temptation is ever-present. Difficulty lies in understanding forgiveness of the backslider believer who is not following the straight and narrow in their daily walk. Is it automatic? Do they have to acknowledge their shortcoming before God?

Commandment has been given to forgive others, multiple times if necessary in order to receive God's forgiveness when we stumble.

So just because a believer has been forgiven of original sin as well as ALL their sins, we can not simply disregard the mistakes made during our daily walk with Christ. These reminders are found throughout the NT. We will all stand an accountability before Christ.

My question is specific to IZH27's claim of...

Jesus and the Apostles speak about the Church in no uncertain terms. While it is generally true that all believers are a part of the universal church that truth does not exclude the specific instruction that we are to be a part of the church as represented by the local congregation.

Among other things...

I asked him to quote Jesus not Paul.

Instead he takes off on tangents and projects words and ideals about me completely out of context.

Last time he had to finally admit he was wrong about what I said.

Kent

Do you not believe that Paul was speaking in persona Christi?

You don't believe the Bible? That's not standard Christianity. If you don't believe the Bible, there's no point in anyone quoting it to you.

I'm just wondering how we'd take disagreements to elders if there was no organization with a building to ordain elders. How would the letters of Paul and Peter be read to a congregation if they didn't meet somewhere?

The Bible doesn't explicitly command everything, we have to use our God-given reason just a little.

Well, that phrase was part of a sentence about churches that minimize sin, and thus minimize Jesus. We are either sinful or sinless, and if a church is telling everyone that they are sinless and whatever they want to do is fine, then that is not a church I'd want anything to do with.

My understanding is that we are never without sin in this life, and thus never without the need for grace/forgiveness. You have to acknowledge the constant need for grace to be in constant remembrance of it, or so it seems to me. Acknowledgement of our sins need not, indeed should not, equate to feelings of guilt. Maybe not a great analogy, but if I am pitching and the batter hits a home run off me, then I acknowledge that I threw a bad pitch but there is no guilt over it and I don't dwell on it. It happened; next batter, next pitch, move on. No one expects me to pitch a perfect game every time I pitch.

I think we basically agree, just a difference of phrasing.

I sure as heck don’t believe that Jesus is bound by the covers of a book, a book that didn’t even exist when Christianity first began. Nor do I believe that He ‘only’ reveals Himself to us through the Bible, and/or through the sacraments, and/or through the words of a preacher.

He told those closest to Him that He had much more to say to them, but at the present time it would be more than they could understand. So He promised to send them the Holy Spirit…who would reveal to them what the Son and the Father would have the Holy Spirit disclose to them…and guide them into “all truth”.

To me, Jesus’ life example is the strongest example. And the Holy Spirit is the strongest mentor.

KRP. You said the following.

There is no physical path to God/Christ/Holy Spirit.

Kent

Everything about Christianity is about a physical pathway to God. Outside of salvation we are dead in trespasses and sins. Spiritually mentally and physically. Everything about the work of Christ and our being saved relates to a very tangible and real set of events that involved Christ. If there is no physical pathway there is no regeneration, no justification no sanctification and no promise of the resurrection from the dead.