Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Single Shots TC Encore Pistol and Rifle Actions - Now what?

Okay, my daughter just expressed an interest in going hunting and specifically she wants to hunt with a pistol. I am committed to getting her more involved in our sport, and I had been thinking about getting a TC Encore single shot rifle for some time. Since she showed an interest in the pistol I bought a stainless rifle and stainless pistol action - both the PH Frames, grips and stocks. Now I have a few choices which I would appreciate some input on.

1. Springs and trigger jobs - Who would you turn to for the replacement springs and trigger jobs. I have found Mike Bellm's site online and researched it a bit. How about others? Good or bad feedback on Mike Bellm's work?
2. Hinge pins - use the factory or replace with a tighter aftermarket pin?
3. Barrels - Okay, there are lots of barrel makers and the ones I have identified so far are Bergara (better than factory, but lower cost than custom with fewer caliber choices), Match Grade Machine, Bullberry (Custom barrels),and Coyote Guns & Accessories (Custom Barrels). All seem to have their pluses. Any other suggestions on barrels?
4. Caliber for her pistol - I have been thinking that a 15 inch barrel in .243 Win would be a good choice for deer sized game and she can probably handle the recoil. Any other thoughts or suggestions?
5. Hanger bars for the fore ends? is there much difference?
6. Did I forget anything (other than spending a wad of cash on gunsmithing and barrels soon)?

Thank for your help.
Elk

Elk, seems like you got everything in order. My Encore has a Bellm trigger job and hinge pin; the trigger is NICE, just under 3#s. I believe the hinge pin to be worth the minimal cost.
Pachmayer grip and forend (MidSouth has them) are also something to consider as the factory synthetic are not as good.
Some of the custom barrel makers have ready to ship barrels. Bullberry has just what you're after right now. 15" .243........
Hanger bars sound interesting, but have no experience with them.
Practice shooting offhand with a 5# gun (including scope and rings) would be the only other suggestion I'd have, lots of practice.
Good for you and your daughter!!!

1. why anticipate a problem with these things until you actually buy the gun and use it. Typically the factory does an excellent job of prepping an Encore for use.
2. See #1
3. factory barrels cost about half of a full up custom job. Why not give them a chance first. You may be very surprised. I own several custom house barrels and several factory jobs...why spend $450 if you can get an excellent barrel for $240. If you just have to have one I would choose MGM but I have barrels from most of the others that are good too. If you buy a factory barrel and don't like it for whatever reason you can sell it for close to what you have in it.
4. Chambering is a personal preference thing but any of the common short action rds.(.308 case size) would be perfect.
5. again try the factory set up first. I like a hanger bar setup and about half of mine are done that way. My son likes the factory bolt up foreend which works great. If you are set on a custom barrel you may as well get the HB too....what the hell its only money.
6. Yep... an Encore is a very large pistol and not easily mastered by small hands. I would suggest a Contender in some deer friendly caliber would better suit your needs.

PS if you decide to do a custom barrel from one of the usual vendors I would plan on ordering far in advance. MGM takes around 4-6 weeks, Bullberry can take virtually forever, SSK may have what you need but if not it will be a few weeks, the rest all have lengthy lead times.

Thanks both for your information. I figured the trigger job would need to be around the 2.5-3 pound area. Any lighter and it makes it difficult for cold stiff fingers on a frosty morning. I understand what you mean about anticipating problems that may not be there. But I have had a few experiences with guns that should never have left the factory with the problems they had. I guess I have been staying away from the factory barrels primarily because I have read a number of reports on very bad customer service from TC (now Smith & Wesson) and some machining issues.

I specifically bought the actions without barrels knowing that I would need to do something along the lines of a custom or semi-custom (Bergara) Barrel. I am thinking along these lines: I bought the rifle action for myself to have a singleshot tack-driver and planned to get a custom barrel to begin with. For my daughter, I want her to be able to shoot accurately. You're probably right, a factory barrel would be more than adequate for that, but I also saw the 15" .243 at Bullberry and thought that I would likely pick it up for her.

Anyway, I really appreciate your input.
Elk

1. I've had Mike Bellm do 2 Encore trigger jobs for me & I'm quite happy with the results.

2. A 15 inch 243 Win. barrel should provide low recoil accurate shooting and is certainly sufficient for deer.

3. All of my Encore & Contender handgun barrels except one are factory barrels. For the scoped factory barrels, the worst is a 500 S&W Mag. barrel that will only get 1 to 1.5 inch 3 shot groups at 100 yards.

4. All of my stocks/forends are factory or from Fox Ridge Outfitters which is closely affiliated with T/C. I don't use hanger bars for anything.

5. Most of the time I use Bellm oversize hinge pins. If your frame/barrel happens to have a tight fit, you won't need one.

6. If I were to get a custom barrel made, it would probably be from OTT (On Target Technologies).

I bought a custom barrel in .204 Ruger to get a "real tack driver" and believe me it is. All $440 of it is a prairie dog nightmare....400 yd. shots are a snap. Bought my son a factory .204 barrel to have two and his will hang with mine all day...it cost $195. Go figure.

I have talked to Mike Bellm several times about oversize pins but have yet to buy in. Mine all very tight now. I did the G2/Encore trigger job on mine from Mikes site but my Contender had a great trigger on it from day one.

Sounds like I should seriously reconsider my purchases and wait until I get actions in hand and a couple of barrels to see how they do first. Thanks for the advice. I appreciate it.
Elk

IF you are looking for the best possible accuracy from your Encore's then you most definitley should have Mike Bellm do trigger jobs on them. Also put in his hammer spring. Using a OS hinge pin will help the fit up of barrel to action immensely. For your rifle barrel I suggest going with a wood laminate stock and pillar bed it. If you reload, watch headspace closely and insure you set your FL resize dies corretly to minimize excessive headspace. Pay attention to what Mike Bellm writes He is very knowledgeable and really knows Encores!

IF you are just looking for "minute of elk" accuracy then you needn't bother with anything I just said!

I just placed an order with Mike Bellm for the file and stone to do my own trigger jobs, replace the springs, and a couple of the oversized hinge pins. I also bought a 15" TC Encore PH .243 for my daughter to get her started. Mike seems to be up on the Bergara Barrels as well. That'll be the last piece of the puzzle on my rifle. Do you know anything about the Bergaras? Minute of Elk is okay, but I have been building my own loads for many years and keep my loads grouping under half minute of angle whenever possible. I don't want to spend $325 - $500+ if I don't have to, and the Bergaras seem to have a good reputation (Mike Bellm likes them). The nice thing is they cost less than the TC Factory fodder. Any thoughts would be appreciated.
Thanks
Elk

If you haven't made the purchase yet, buy 2 "pistol" frames. If you decide you don't like it more people are available to buy pistols frames than rifle frames. The only difference is how the box is marked at the factory. You can do about anything to a pistol frame. With the rifle frame you are limited to long guns.

As for barrels, if Mike B recommends it and it's cheaper than factory buy it! He saved me much money with his instructions and site.

I am just working up an stainless Encore rifle myself. I bought it without barrels so I could order an MGM barrel in .308 for the best accuracy. I also bought a laminated thumbhole stock and foreend.

While waiting I wanted something to shoot right away. I saw that Midway had stainless steel barrels in .307 Winchester. This seemed interesting as I could use my .308 dies and the shell holder for the 7-30 Waters which I shoot in my Contender pistols (I agree with comments on Encore pistols. They are just too large for my hands.) The rimmed case may be a little better suited to the Encore. I could also use spitzer bullets as there is no tubular magazine and I could seat them out further as there is no box magazine. So I bought the barrel and some .307 brass. I assembled the rifle and handloads and went off to the range to sight it in. The first three shot group at 100 yards went just under an inch; the second three shot group went into .65 inches, center to center. I have to say that the advice about trying the factory barrel and foreend set-up first has some merit. The rifle is very stable in the rest. It is not me; my name appears in no benchrest or long range match record books.

I have the MGM barrel. I have sighted it in with loads that were developed for a bolt action rifle. I just reloaded those cases after neck-sizing them and I seated the bullets out just short of the rifling. The rifle shot acceptably with loads not developed for it. I will know tomorrow or Sunday how it does with the handloads meant for it.

I should mention that the .308 Winchester with match cases, match primers, a standard load of IMR 4064 and 165-168 grain bullets has been exceptionally accurate in every rifle I have had for the past few years. I just sold three Remington 700 LTRS which consistently shot this load into .65 inches, occasionally bettering .5 inches, once shooting three shots into .35 inches (that's when you stop shooting, announce that the rifle shoots just as well as usual, pack up and walk away from the range). I kept my Remington 700 Classics, afraid that I was giving up accuracy for good looks with their 24 inch barrels and wooden stocks. When I had to go hunting with one in September I sighted one in and it put three shoots right into an inch, so I did not give up much. It doesn't appear to be too much trouble to maintain this performance in the Encore so far.

Of course, even if it isn't absolutely necessary, puttering around with Encores and Contenders while waiting to get to the range or for hunting season is a lot of fun.

GrimJim

Thanks. I did buy the 'off the shelf' TC 15" 243 for my daughter and will likely buy a Bergara for the rifle. The Bergara is actually less expensive than buying a factory barrel and they seem to get decent ratings at most of the sites I have looked at. Standard accuracy is fine for now.

Regarding the size on the pistol, we'll see how it goes. My daughter's hands may be able to handle it, perhaps not. Regardless, even if it is off the bench for a while she will get an opportunity to practice with a hunting pistol from a rest and I may end up getting her a contender framed pistol - we'll see. I am looking forward to shooting that one myself, so if she doesn't like it there's no complaint from me. Let's call that a good fall back position.

Elk

Contenders are near and dear to my heart. IMNSHO, the Contenders are better pistols than the Encore - smaller, lighter, and will easily reach to well beyond 250yds on whitetails with factory barrels.

That said, if the Encore shoots to your expectations, a smaller grip is only a wood rasp away.

Very true.

By the way, I have been trading some emails with Mike Bellm. Mike is undecided on the Bergara's still. He thinks they have great potential but they are still 'new'. He is doing his own testing and will report on his site when he has some significant conclusions.
Elk

One thing you might consider is a used Encore barrel. There are a multitude of them for sale Most are hardly used and will give years of service. You can find some great barrels at dang reasonable prices. Watch the classified ad's here and check other shooter related forums. I've bought a couple used barrels and found them to be excellent.

I don't have any experience with Beragra barrels I do own Thompson Ceneter factory barresl, Custom shop barrels, MGM and Bullberry barrels. I've stayed away from EABCO barrels . I have excellent performance from every barrel I own and only have had less than stelluar accuracy from a few. The Encore system , in my opinion, was not designed for bench rest shooting. It is primarily a hunting firearm. I am quite happy with 3/4"to 1", 5 shot groups@ 100yds. A lot of my TC factory barrels shoot better than that, with the right bullet and load.

I shoot a half of safefull of Encores and Contenders hangun and rifles including 6 wildcats, muzzlelaoder and barrels ranging from 17 Rem to 45/70 handgun. Mike Belm does do trigger jobs. I just bought his springs and used his on-line vidio to replace originals and have mine all at 2.5 lbs (Light to some but no one else shoots my guns). But try the factory trigger first, they can vary in pull weight. Some of mine needed no work.
Hinge pin replacement is mostly hype. Some used guns that have been abused with heavy loads may have a problem that way. Try shooting the factory pin and replace it only if loose. (Have not found one yet).
The factory barrels are quite good. In fact TC is doing barrels for othere mfgrs. lately because of their quality.
Except for those of my guns that sport Pachmeyers forearms I have not found hangers to be necesary. The Pachmeyer system attches with a seperate hanger that must does not come with the forearm.
As for caliber, I'd opt for the 7/08 over the 243; which in my opinion is a marginal deer caliber...esp in 15" barrel.
The 7/08 in a 130 gr Ballistic Tip load will give you a great combination of recoil and terminal performance which is about 20 grs heavier than most anything you can buy for 243. If you handload, 7 mm bullet are available from 100 to 175 grs. You may also want to check out the availability of reduced loads when she starts.
Also, start her shooting with shooting stix or a bipod. A 5 lb handgun shot offhand isn't the most steady of arms. Can lead to disappointment over poor accuracy. After she becomes proficient she can try shooting offhand. But IMO any handgun shot at game should be rested if possible.
Keep the scope magnifcation relatively low, 3 to 4X, since ist's unlikely that she will be shooting much over 100 yard or so. This will ensure that the scope (FWIW, I prefer Leupold and Burris)is small and light and has a larger field of view. It isn't all that easy to find game in a forward mounted scope of higher agnification.
Like any other sporting endeavor, you can throw money at gear quite easily in handgunning. Take your time and see what works before you do.
Best of luck

Elk Man,

I own and have owned many many T/C rifles and handguns since 1987. I currently have a love affair with my Encore and its SSK 7 Wby Shilen Stainless barrel. I also have a T/C stainless 280 Rem barrel that is a 1/2" shooter off the shelf.

I sold all of my pistol barrels. The recoil was simply too harsh and I lost interest in them. I had one in 35-06 JDJ, 270 JDJ, 280 JDJ & 308 Winchester.

I have a Ruger Hunter SBH 7.5" in 45 Colt. With full power loads, it recoils less than my Encore. After the smoke cleared and after trying a fair cross section of handgun calibers and cartridges.....I kept my 45 Colt Rugers and the Encores got sold.

The rifle, on the other hand, is the sweetest I own. It is such a quick handling and short rifle that it just snaps to the shoulder. My daughter hunted with the 280 JDJ for 3 years taking a 10 point WT, an 8 point WT and a 30" Axis buck. She loves that gun literally.

My advice, focus on a good rifle cartridge and forgo the Encore handgun if you can. Maybe you could interest her in the currently available Ruger SBH Hunter in either 44 Mag or 41 Mag.

Just my opinion.

p.s., Bellm is the go-to shop for Encore smithing!! Used SSK but not my first choice. They do quality work but the owner is not nice while taking your money.

Thanks to all of you. For my daughter, I already know that she is going to have to prove she can handle rifle calibers in a pistol and consistently control it off the bench. I plan on setting her up with a Bipod to start as well. That's why I am having her start with the .243 Win. Recoil is probably less than the 7-08 (which is my personal hunting caliber of choice for Mulies) in a 15" barrel. Combine that with a Barnes 85 grain solid copper premium bullet and it should be a very good deer killer out to about 200 yards. As I said previously, if she doesn't like it, it will just end up with me as a good fall back position.

I had a TC Contender back in the early eighties in 30 Herrett and loved it. What I didn't like was trying to figure out how to make the custom cases with the correct headspace. It's no longer a problem, but at the time I had no one to turn to to ask questions about what I was doing - I was fairly new to reloading. I also bought a 223 Rem rifle barrel for it. It was one of the most fun, light shooters I have ever owned. I would take it out in the desert and tumble Jackrabbits running at 100 yards with it.

I am very excited to be getting back into the TC - I enjoy the simplicity of the action design and the elegence of the single shot. Once the Encore came out I decided I wanted to get one as a hunting rifle again. I build loads up for my rifles and expect them to be sub-MOA guns with proper loads. I expect no less (or better) from the TC Encore which is why I started this thread. The Encore as well as the other TC frames are all capable of incredible accuracy. That's why my concerns about what to do in buying custom, semi-custom, or going with factory barrels. I am trying to measure twice and cut once.

Had my daughter not expressed an interest in the pistol, I probably would not have bought the second action. However, when said that she wanted to go and wanted to learn with a pistol, I was delighted that she was interested. I made a commitment to teach her and get her excited about it.

Anyway, that being said your comments have helped reduce my concerns over the newer TC barrel quality. If I can find a good used one I will. Her .243 Win barrel I have already bought new from Midway and it's on its way. Mike Bellm has already been kind enough to answer some of my questions (bless his heart and his patience) and if the guns don't have acceptable triggers, I plan on doing trigger jobs myself using Mike's experience, knowledge, parts and tools.

Since I am already loading up the 220 Swift, 223, 243, 7mm-08, and a couple of others, I am thinking of going with the 223 in the rifle to start or go with something completely different such as the 17 Remington. And then there is also the 209x50 black powder....We'll see. I have time.

Thanks again for all your suggestions and help.
Elk

I shoot a 223 and 17 Remmi, in carbine configuration. Think I'd consider the 204 Ruger very seriously if a new cartridge of that size were my interest. Less recoil than 223 and won't blow as much as the 17. Near perfect varmint cartridge. My SIL shoots one on PDs(to take a break from his Swift) and absolutely loves it.

Thanks Everyone. Thought I would update a little. For my Encores, I chose the 7mm-08 for the Carbine and the 243 Win in 15" barrel for the pistol. I load both of those calibers already which is why I chose them. I used the loads I have for other rifles to start. In addition, after using snap caps to get a feel for how the triggers were to start, I decided to go ahead and teach myself to do the trigger jobs for both of them. With Mike Bellm's help, I was able to do a 2.5# trigger pull for the Carbine and a 3.5# trigger pull for the pistol. I wanted a little heavier pull to start off with for my daughter. In addition, I also installed the set screws to control overtravel. As I said, with Mike Bellm's help I was able to do this myself and I would encourage anyone thinking about it to try it - it's easy. The first one took a while, but the second was easy and fast.

On the 7mm-08 I got 1" groups at 100 yards with the loads for my other rifle - that's without trying to build a rifle specific load for the Encore! So I am going to be working with that some more to see if I can tighten it up substantially, which I expect it will. I put a nice Nikon Monarch 2.5-10x42 on it with the BDC which I really like.

On the 243 pistol, I didn't want to spend a bunch of money for a scope that I might have to turn around and sell later on. I bought an NcStar handgun scope from Mike Bellm and splurged on the 2-7 variable. This cost me about $70 and has a lifetime guarantee! Using some 243 rounds loaded with the 62 grain varmint grenades, I got 3/4" groups at 100 yards! To say I was pleased is an understatement. I will likely be building some customized loads for this in the near future. By the way, I was expecting much more recoil than I actually got from the 243. I recently added the Pachmayer grip and foreend to the pistol as well and hope to get back out to the range tomorrow with my daughter and shoot some more.

Again, thanks again everyone for your help.
Elk