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Joined: Jan 2008
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Campfire Tracker
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OP
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 5,188 Likes: 1 |
Other than making my wife think I lost my mind is it worth it?
So the back story is I have aquired a lot of .22 WMR ammunition and have a fairly accurate Savage 93 FV rifle. So I was sighting in my new scope for the rifle the other day and I had some 5 shot groups go under 1" and others over 2" at 100 with the same ammunition. I've always thought of this as a max 150 yard rifle on prairie dogs, if lucky I could stretch it to 200 yards. I felt I was shooting pretty consistent so I was wondering how I could make it more accurate.
So I pulled out two bricks of Federal Premium 30 grain TNT HP and my RCBS 1500 gr pocket scale and took over the kitchen table last night. I was surprised at the wide range of variation in cartridge weights with a low of 54.6 to a high of 56.1 grains. The largest average was between 55.4-55.6 grains. Here is how it broke down.
54.6-54.9 gr = 10 55-55.2 gr = 197 55.3 gr = 86 55.4 gr = 171 55.5 gr = 166 55.6 gr = 239 55.7 gr = 60 55.8-56.1 = 71
I know the proof might be in the targets to tell me if it's worth it or not. Anyway I have several more thousands of rounds to sort, that I'm not looking forward to if this shrinks my groups. I guess if it'll give me more consistent hits beyond 150 yards on pasture poodles I'll be happy.
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 58,669 Likes: 42
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 58,669 Likes: 42 |
I HATE Salvage as a fhuqking default,mainly because they are gritty,schitty pieces of schit. Hint.
That being said,sorting by mass,will obviously shorten the spectrum,but I've found sorting rim thickness to bear more fruit in Accuracy/Precision. ES/SD is still akin to a Mad Woman going to take a schit...with no rhyme or reason. 30gr TNT HP's are Dog Schit in "consistency",so in reality you are Turd Stacking. Hint.
Turds Stack even deeper,given their Dog Schit BC,which is akin to shooting parachutes. They slip Transonic,in rock throwing distance,so that's even more ropes to piss up. You are doing yourself ZERO fhuqking "favors". In 60 degree weather at my house,they slip Transonic at the 140yd line. That GRACIOUSLY allowing the Factory contrived velocity. Hint.
If you wanna connect Long Range Rimfire dots,the 22LR has NO equal and that fhuqks with pointy heads and crossed-eyes...because there is NO Transonic Slip. Hint.
Thank me later.
Just sayin'................
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 23,151 Likes: 6
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 23,151 Likes: 6 |
Sorting by rim thickness may bear sweeter results. remember that one of the key factors in rimfire accuracy is consistent ignition, and varying rim thickness can't help but hurt consistent firing pin impact. There are rim thickness measuring devices out there, used with a dial indicator, that makes the task only about as onerous as weight sorting. The one I use is double ended for doing both .22 LR (and Short) and .22WMR. (Don't ask me the brand, I don't remember and I'm not at home to go look.)
"You can lead a man to logic, but you cannot make him think." Joe Harz "Always certain, often right." Keith McCafferty
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 58,669 Likes: 42
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 58,669 Likes: 42 |
granola, Who'da' thunk?!? You Fhuqktards are a hoot! Hint. RCBS. Hint. Fhuqking LAUGHING!...............
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 5,188 Likes: 1
Campfire Tracker
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OP
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 5,188 Likes: 1 |
Sorting by rim thickness may bear sweeter results......The one I use is double ended for doing both .22 LR (and Short) and .22WMR. (Don't ask me the brand, I don't remember and I'm not at home to go look.) I'm not sure how far down the rabbit hole I'm going to chase .22 WMR accuracy. I'll look into a rim thickness measuring tool. However I'm minute of prairie dog beyond 100 yds, and it still pounded the crap out of my targets at 100 yards.
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Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 9,699 Likes: 7
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 9,699 Likes: 7 |
The part of al this that surprises me is the small electronic scale that can repeatedly weigh to a tenth.
I'm not doubting the OP, maybe just wanting a scale like it.
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 5,188 Likes: 1
Campfire Tracker
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OP
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 5,188 Likes: 1 |
The part of al this that surprises me is the small electronic scale that can repeatedly weigh to a tenth.
I'm not doubting the OP, maybe just wanting a scale like it. RCBS Pocket Scale 1500 GNI don't believe it's a perfect scale, but I calibrate often and have been using it for more than a year weighing bulk bullets. I get accepable results using it that way, so I thought I'd use it on the .22 WMR.
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 23,151 Likes: 6
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 23,151 Likes: 6 |
I use a Frankford Arsenal pocket scale for such chores (not that I've gone too far down the rabbit hole of weighing .22 match ammo). (Free from Graf's a couple years ago, stuck in a box containing a large order of bullets. No clue why.) It jives perfectly with my RCBS 10-10 analog scale, and with the check weights. Of course maybe they're both off and the check weights aren't correct - who knows. Now my head is spinning.
"You can lead a man to logic, but you cannot make him think." Joe Harz "Always certain, often right." Keith McCafferty
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 17,147 Likes: 2
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 17,147 Likes: 2 |
Sorting by rim thickness may bear sweeter results. remember that one of the key factors in rimfire accuracy is consistent ignition, and varying rim thickness can't help but hurt consistent firing pin impact. Indeed, I'm pretty convinced that rim thickness is a significant factor in accuracy based on some casual testing. Note the variance in one box between "decent" and "good" ammo
If something on the internet makes you angry the odds are you're being manipulated
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 23,151 Likes: 6
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 23,151 Likes: 6 |
Could be an excuse for an extended range day/testing session, Pugs. Let's do it soon. (But only if shrimp and beer afterwards!)
"You can lead a man to logic, but you cannot make him think." Joe Harz "Always certain, often right." Keith McCafferty
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 17,147 Likes: 2
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 17,147 Likes: 2 |
Could be an excuse for an extended range day/testing session, Pugs. Let's do it soon. (But only if shrimp and beer afterwards!) Certainly a solid idea on a spring day if you have a gauge. Mine's in pre-move storage. Martini's on me!
If something on the internet makes you angry the odds are you're being manipulated
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 23,151 Likes: 6
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 23,151 Likes: 6 |
Shaken, not stirred.
"You can lead a man to logic, but you cannot make him think." Joe Harz "Always certain, often right." Keith McCafferty
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Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 15
New Member
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New Member
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 15 |
It's generally conceded that "sorting" is erratic due to so many variables. Best process is to record Chrono of each LOT # you have by testing a whole box. Then look for the 'best' (lowest) ES and use the 'highest ES for plinking.
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 17,874 Likes: 3
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 17,874 Likes: 3 |
Tried sorting by rim thickness and found it to be a waste of time. My Winchester M/52 and Springfield 1922 will put 50 rounds of CCI Std. Vel. in one ragged hole @ 50yds.. That's plenty good accuracy for me.
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 48,264 Likes: 30
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 48,264 Likes: 30 |
Tried sorting by rim thickness and found it to be a waste of time. My Winchester M/52 and Springfield 1922 will put 50 rounds of CCI Std. Vel. in one ragged hole @ 50yds.. That's plenty good accuracy for me. Talk about boring..
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style. You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole. BSA MAGA
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 11,333
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 11,333 |
It all depends on the level of accuracy you are reaching for. I shoot 22BR and using Lapua CenterX, Midas +, Eley Tenex, and Eley Match and yes you can see some gains in accuracy in the way of reducing the fliers or unexplained shot that happen from time to time.
I may not be smart but I can lift heavy objects
I have a shotgun so I have no need for a 30-06.....
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 56,228 Likes: 28
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 56,228 Likes: 28 |
I use paper to measure mine.
I am..........disturbed.
Concerning the difference between man and the jackass: some observers hold that there isn't any. But this wrongs the jackass. -Twain
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Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 19,109 Likes: 5
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 19,109 Likes: 5 |
I would bet the rim thickness variation has a lot to do with the consistency of spinning the primer compound inside the case head.Years ago Federal did study on that when developing their match ammunition
If God wanted you to walk and carry things on your back, He would not have invented stirrups and pack saddles
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Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 586
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 586 |
I would bet the rim thickness variation has a lot to do with the consistency of spinning the primer compound inside the case head.Years ago Federal did study on that when developing their match ammunition I remember reading about that study. Federal spent about $1mil in R&D about why our Olympic shooters would not use American ammo during competition, but they would practice with it. As I recall, Federal guys said 'this is America, we put men on the moon, we should be able to make accurate rimfire ammo'. Their conclusion was rim thickness played a very large factor in accuracy, along with consistent priming and powder drops. The consistent priming/powder drops were done better by the more experienced operators.
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Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 9,752 Likes: 6
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 9,752 Likes: 6 |
I would bet the rim thickness variation has a lot to do with the consistency of spinning the primer compound inside the case head.Years ago Federal did study on that when developing their match ammunition I remember reading about that study. Federal spent about $1mil in R&D about why our Olympic shooters would not use American ammo during competition, but they would practice with it. As I recall, Federal guys said 'this is America, we put men on the moon, we should be able to make accurate rimfire ammo'. Their conclusion was rim thickness played a very large factor in accuracy, along with consistent priming and powder drops. The consistent priming/powder drops were done better by the more experienced operators. If I remember correctly, the Ultra Match ammunition wasn't produced for long because of the costs. Are you aware of any documentation about the UM stuff? It would be interesting to read. Federal must have picked the brains of the European makers and tore apart a bunch of their product.
Safe Shooting! Steve Redgwell www.303british.comGet your facts first, then you can distort them as you please. - Mark Twain Member - Professional Outdoor Media Association of Canada
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