Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters 223 Rem, New school or old school twist rate?

If the California crazyness of non-lead bullets ever happens in your area you may run into some stability issues. I had a 1 in 14 barrel on an older M700 and couldn't stabilize any Barnes but 40gr Varmint Grenades. Rebarreled it to 1 in 8.
This is a pic of 53grTSX fired from about 30ft.

In my current 223 which is a Tikka CTR, it has shot about everything I have put through it real well. Even the old box of Federal 40 BT's shot amazing. It mainly lives off the 77 TMK's but I'd have 0 qualms about buying one and shooting regular old 40-55's through it either if I didn't wanna shoot longer stuff.

Eileen and I have three .223s--though one is the .223 Bushmaster XM15-E2S skinny-barreled carbine I bought in 2008, which has a 5.56 NATO throat and a 1-9 twist barrel. It has grouped bullet from 40-grain Ballistic Tips to various 75-80 grainers well inside an inch at 100 yards.

The other two are a Remington 700 laminated-stock varmint rifle with a heavy 26" barrel, purchased new around 2000. It has the typical 1-14" twis, and when new would put five 50-grain Nosler Ballistic Tips in .25" at 100 yards. Several thousand rounds later it will still put five of just about any factory load with lead-cores bullets up to 60 grains into 3/4 inch, but its standard varmint load uses TAC and any 50-grain plastic tip--which it still groups under 1/2".

The third is a Ruger American Predator with a 1-8 twist, which groups 80+ grain bullets very well--but also groups 50-55 grain bullets under an inch.

Have seen similar results from various other .223s over the years with various twist, but these three are the rifles I know best.

For sure. I did find the 50 grain TTSX will shoot in a 1 in 14" decent. Probably would do best in a 1 in 12 or faster though.
Barnes twist recommendations are usually pretty spot on, and anything slower than what they say is a gamble at best.

And for even more detail, the stability calculator from Berger can be used for most bullets.

I would make a decision how far you want to shoot first, and what you want to shoot at, and go from there. The bullets I like shooting in .223 will not stand up to a fast twist. These are the 45 grain Hornady hornet, 50 grain TNT, and 50 grain SX. Some of the polymer tipped bullets will handle the RPM of a fast twist fine and if they suit you, by all means, go for it. I'll stick with 1-12" or 1-14" if I only have a single .223. I find the whole family of cartridges best inside 250 yards even if they can be stretched further. At 300 and 600 there are much better choices, for example, a .22 Creedmoor or .22-250 AI. In those cases, go with the fast twist and long, high BC bullets. IMHO we've collectively gotten so wrapped around the axle over long range that we've forgotten that there are a lot more short and medium range shots to be taken than there are long range. We're overlooking the workhorse setups that are most practical for most people most of the time in favor of high performance stuff that nobody needs for most of their uses. Like .. hauling gravel in a corvette.

Tom

If you notice most everyone who has tried faster twists prefer them and report the lighter bullets still work fine.

Most of the naysayers are giving opinions mostly based on speculation.

That's a lot of jump, but hey, Matchkings can usually take it. It seems odd to me that many are throated like they are being the round was designed commercially to fit the old short action pre-64 Mod 70s.

Ha! Keep it to ourselves. Keeps the buy outs on stuff we want easier!

I had a 7 twist AR-15 that did "overstabilize" at least one shorter 50gr bullet.

Could have been a flaw in the bore but I did not see any. And I guess that lot of bullets could have been messed up somehow.

But I did experience the bullets rapidly disassembling themselves and spraying shrapnel on my targets.

With 12 and 9 twists, never had issues.

I would prefer the fastest twist I can get that is still practical for whatever I am doing, of course. I have two 9 twist 223s now and no complaints.

What was the 50 that blew up?

Federal hp, bought factory loads cheap for the brass

Thanks MJ.

1-8 should do anything you want to do with ease.

Best piece of logic I’ve seen here in a long time. Solid post T O M.

If you wanted to shoot the longer/heavier bullets with the longer OAL they require... Wouldn't the 224 Valkyrie's shorter case be the better way to go ?... Looks like bolt actions chambered for that cartridge are rarer than hens teeth...

definitely support Kaleb's posting here....very few issues seen with MOST smaller 22 caliber bullets..

I know DON'T try Hornady's SPSX bullets in a fast twist barrel, unless you back off the velocity substantially...

However on a real foggy day, it is kinda of fun to shoot an SPSX at a max velocity out of a 223 or 22.250..
Right out of the barrel you see the bullet come apart, sending shrapnel in all directions...

No one who has ever used a decent fast twist 22, no matter what chambering would ever go back, but the fudd runs deep on the fire, especially if they have no experience with such.

As the OP mentions going out to 500-600yds at times, I’d certainly lean on a 1/8” twist. While a 75gr bullet at 2900fps is not blistering fast, it’s made up a lot of ground against a good 50gr offering by the time you reach 300yds and it excels past that range. The trajectory of a 75 at that velocity also mimics that of many standard big game rounds. Handy for practice.

If you notice most everyone who has tried faster twists prefer them and report the lighter bullets still work fine.

Most of the naysayers are giving opinions mostly based on speculation.[/quote]

I’m a slow twist guy in the 223. My shots are are sub 300 yards, most are far less than that. I I shoot mostly 40 grain at PDs and 50s at coyotes. I have zero interest in lobbing 70 plus grain bullets in a 22 center fire. So I’ll stick to slow twist, you can use whatever twist and bullet length you prefer.

Unless you intend to shoot the extra fragile light bullets, the fast twist
will work for anything. (Should. Guns being female concerning predictability)

Fast twist limits soft/light bullets.
Slow twist limits you to medium weights and/or stubby bullets.
1/9 is a compromise that might let you go down, but still limits the longer ones.

This isn't complicated.
It's mechanics, and everything is a compromise.


Figure out what you want, what you might want.

That
Is
The
Question.

No one else can know the answer.

Once you know what you want it to do, there is no decision to make concerning
twist. It's been pretty determined.