Home Forums Reloading Bullet Casting What lube now?

I used to shoot Rooster Red and Rooster HVR .. Rooster seems defunct. What's the go-to high temp lube today? (I'm not interested in powder coating at this point.)

TOM, If you think Larry Gibson is a guy to listen to over at Castboolits...he converted me to plain ol' Lee Liquid Alox, they call it LLA over there, long ago. Some of the higher velocity loads I use it in are .30-40 Krag at almost 1,700 fps and 8x57 at 1,600 fps...with no trouble at all...the 8x57 has a 28.5 inch bbl, you would think a tumble lube would cause problems, but it sure hasn't. At the beginning though, I did thoroughly clean the barrel and warm it well, and pre treat it with LLA. But now I've got 240 plus rounds down that bbl, without bothering to clean it, accuracy staying steady.

What's your velocity goal and alloy? One man's definition of high velocity differs from the next guy's. Me, I consider anything over 2000fps as high velocity and rarely (like, never) go there. As such I've never felt the need for high temp lubes.

Pursuant to your question, someone else will have to chime in. Ye Olde NRA formula lube (50/50 beeswax/Alox) cooked up by Col. Harrison back in the mid-60's has served me well for my playing in the sub-2000fps realm, rifle and pistol. Never cared for the LLA tumble lube, no good reason just never did. I have a couple bottles of the stuff glaring at me from the shelf as I write this.

My father ran many a stick of Tamarack through the lubrisizer over the years.

Velocity .. I would say 1250 to 1400 fps for now. .357 and .44 revolvers. Someday up to 1550 for revolver and 1750 for rifle MAYBE. I'm not worrying about that to begin with. Alloy will be wheelweights spiked with linotype to begin with, I have 100-150 pounds of that left, then something approximating Lyman #2 when the wheelweight metal is gone.

I guess one addition is I'd rather stay away from alox-based lubes if possible to avoid the smoke if possible.

Smoke? I don't see no stinking smoke. I'm not trying to push LLA, but I think smoke maybe comes from excess lube, and properly applied LLA uses a tiny fraction of the lube that filling the grooves with color coded lubes do. Imagine the varnish type lube on modern .22 rounds...properly applied LLA dries and finishes like that.
A 4oz squirt bottle of LLA will lube hundreds of large surface area rifle bullets. I personally don't care to have lube on the bullet bases, so I deviate from the instructions...lay my bullets down and roll them on a film on a plasticized paper plate or something. Then just the bearing surfaces get a coating.
But, if ya don't like...ya don't like it.

I haven't used LLA a lot. I was thinking more of the alox based lubes .. sticks .. I messed with years ago.

Oh yeah...that nasty old dark brown Lyman Alox...the smoke from my .45-70's using that stuff made people think I was using black powder only the smoke was a nasty smelling cloud of blue.

I use SPG for BP loads and Lee Liquid Alox for smokeless. My alloys vary of course, but the lube path is the same. Thinned about 10% with mineral spirits, dipped base to upper groove, allowed to dry to a sticky state then dusted with a blend of motor mica and graphite. I have used LLA with BHN12 alloy in a .30-30 at velocities up to around 2100 fps with a Lyman 311041. Accuracy at 50 yards was about 1.5" for 5 shots.

Working up some loads early on...

How many tubes would need for your project?

I may have some out in my shop,i will look in the morning.

I'm an odd duck - I kinda like the smell of burning Alox in the morning. It's the smell of....victory!

Thanks, I appreciate the thought. I'm not out, I have 8 sticks of Rooster Zambini left which should get me through what I cast Sunday, but I need to figure out what to do 'cause no matter what I bum, beg, borrow, or buy, when it's gone it's gone and I'll need to do something else. In other words I'm not asking 'cause I'm in a bind now, I'm just asking so I can learn what I should be looking for to stock up for the future.

Anybody use Lyman Orange Magic?

I have, in the past. Ok stuff.

Lotak Hard from the Bullshop. I bought a lifetime supply years ago and it's still going strong. https://bullshop.weebly.com/-lubes.html. I use it on everything I cast for - .38 Special, .357 Max, .350 Remington Magnum, .260 Rem, .30-40 Krag, .30-06. It's fantastic.

I have. Its garbage, as is the OP's Rooster Red. Saeco Green about the same. Lots of wax, mostly paraffin, which makes a good flux but a piss poor lubricant carrier. Paraffin is mostly decorative and works well for tinning, something we are trying not to accomplish.

Alox and SPG flat work for what 99.9% of us do with cast bullets and pressures under 40kpsi. Orange Magic kind of fits the bill in this regard, but it doesn't work like Alox or Texaco Taurac, both of which keep the steel "wet", even when hot.
SPG is allegedly Beeswax and petroleum jelly. Garbe made it specifically to keep fouling, especially black powder fouling soft. Mike Venturino swears by it, and few if any BP shooters swear at it. For most handgun pressures it should be right at home, but like alox it lubricates by volume of consumption, so generally more is more and is at home with large, square bottom grease grooves or multiple finned grease grooves like Louverin style bullets of old (or tumble lube bullets of today).

I've stocked up on LBT stuff and made my own and ran it side by side with LBT. LBT makes for a good substitute for Alox whether using as a groove hydraulic lube or surface lube with less smoke, less odor and higher load bearing and higher temp stability. LBT designed bullets pushed hard fare better with LBT lube as their groove size and depth are designed around it and less so volume lubes like Alox or SPG. Again, it depends on how hard you are trying to push them, how hot stuff is and what you want as an end result.

Beeswax with Lucas SYNTHETIC oil stabilizer, enough to soften to flow under pressure is what I have used as a sub for LBT. Its a few decades advanced from ordinary Alox and petro jelly and will run a couple feet of tube at max pressures without smoking or getting dry at the muzzle, still making a lube star upon exit.

Here you go. All of his lubes are great. https://www.lsstuff.com/

Agree.


How many did you cast Sunday?

Not sure. I spent at least 9 hours with a pair of 4-cavity molds so .. there's a hell of a pile of bullets. I would say absolutely no less than 40 pounds possibly upwards of 50. Biggest damned pile of bullets I ever made in one sitting!

That's a pile for sure. With a standard 1X4 solid stick of lube I could lube 785 each Lyman 429421 bullets. Those have a fairly deep lube groove. With 8 sticks that would be 6280 bullets. Maybe this will help with your plans.

As Tomme Boy said: https://www.lsstuff.com/ is a good place to look for store bought lube.

I use 2500+ for every thing now days because it was easier than cleaning out the luber.

I've ran about 10 different types of lube and sometimes I've had two kinds coming out of the sizer at the same time. Rifle or pistol, they all seem to work well for me.

my highest vel cartridge I use speed green in and that was just per chance. (2500 fps) works fine.

I'd not sweat it too much.

Consider these as words of wisdom. I've seen the subject of lube taken to the great heights of the universe. I've read the various threads of men who are really deep thinkers on the subject. I stand in awe of their conversations & wish not to speak against any of it. They have discovered things about accuracy, leading, etc.

But like blammer, I've used several lubes that worked just fine for my purpose. Can my purpose & the purpose of others be different? Sure can but for the most part I'm happy with what I use.

Thank you for the voices of reason and assurance.

While it's fun and educational to delve into the finer points of our hobby, I am one of those who simply don't care to compete in the "How Fine Can You Split This Hair" Olympics.


Fwiw, I've been using LBT Blue exclusively since the 90's. It's been used on mild .38 Spl loads through magnum handguns through 2000+ fps loads in the .30-30, .308 and .30-06. It never let me down so as long as it wasn't broke there was no reason to fix it.

Of course, I now powder coat all my handgun bullets but that's a heretical topic for another thread...

I was hoping to put in an order with LBT for a couple molds soon. Looks like I waited too long. Per their web site, they had a bad fire Christmas Eve, all their equipment was destroyed, and they probably won't return to making molds. Sounds like they will make lube again in the future, an even better formula (whatever that means) but won't be replacing / repairing the mold making equipment .. they're done. That is, if I read it right. Crap ... hate that.

Truer words were never spoken.

Powder coat lube.

Same here but again, there are those who have tested their theories over & over. They have put the time in so to speak & I wish not to take from that. But I'm pretty happy using what I have.

Not sure I can eat my breakfast having read this.

Great lubes from great people.

If you get cracked dry feet in the winter you can beat their skin care products.

I make my own 450 stick lubes with 60% beeswax, 20% hoglard, and 20% avocado oil

I've also mixed 50% beeswax, 40% olive oil, and 10% hoglard. Some of this is I dump and mix until it feels and looks right. I should get this down to an exact recipe. I've run Lee 309-170 molded bullets at full throttle 308 win loads at 2700fps with excellent accuracy. 1" groups at 100 yds from a target barrel. Interestingly they also shoot good semiautomatic

Hmmm. Interesting. Hog lard? The recipe probably won't gain much traction in the Middle East.

Can't think of better eyeliner for that third eye..

I use LBT blue soft. Great stuff!

I'm sitting down right now to mix up some wax wad material: an old recipe formulated by A.O.Niedner over 100 years ago. 4 parts beeswax/4 parts Japan Wax/2 parts colloidal graphite. Melt in a small double boiler and pour onto the surface of a pan of cold water - the wax solidifies on the surface in relatively thin sheets which are then removed and stored in a box with wax paper separating them.

The stuff is used at the shooting range when breech seating ammunition in single shot target rifles. After breech seating the soft plain base bullet firmly/completely into the rifling, the cartridge case is de- and re-capped and charged with powder. Before the case is inserted into the chamber behind the bullet its mouth is pressed into the wax sheet like a cookie cutter leaving a wax wad in the mouth thereof. It serves three purposes: A) it keeps powder from spilling out in the journey from the bench to the rifle chamber, B) protects the base of the bullet from the sandblasting effect of as yet unburned powder granules, and C) provides a modicum of additional lube to the bore. Another benefit which doesn't apply to me is if you're doing this with black powder propellant it goes a long way toward eliminating and/or softening fouling buildup in the bore, thus allowing the shooter to fire longer strings of shots without having to swab the bore between shots (what the old timers called "shooting dirty").

Probably of little interest here, just wanted to show a little of how the other half lives. "Tools of the trade":

de- re-capper, Pope-style


Bullet breech seating tools


Bullet lube pump (lubes one bullet at a time, at the shooting bench)