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Originally Posted by Feral_American
Originally Posted by drop_point
The .308 Winchester is not popular for long range competition shooting except disciplines that require its use per the rules. Otherwise, you'll rarely see .308 Winchester. PRS? Its mostly 6mm chamberings.


My humble experience doesn't mean much but any of the regional one day PRS matches I've been involved in, the 308 has it's own class. Out of a 100 shooter roster, 10 maybe a dozen shot 308. It's usually the guys with Mil/LEO background. Scores actually ran pretty much on par with the open class that I shot in.

Fast twisted high BC bullets in 6mm chamberings are vastly popular because if there was a better overall trade off they wouldn't be. The serious ones grope for every advantage they can find, the not-so-serious ones are following the herd.

A few outliers bought into the hype and got into it with a factory built 6.5 Creed and factory "match" ammo, but the alleged magical Creed never got them off the bottom of the score sheet that I can recall.

Yep, they have created "tactical class" over the last few years. When one does well in that class it is in spite of the cartridge. the 6mm offers a fraction of the wind deflection and much lower recoil (which means faster and more accurate corrections). A new cartridge cannot turn a bad shooter into a good shooter, but two equally skilled shooters the higher-BC bullet shooter is going to win every single time.

It isn't just a trend, they are better tools for the job.

Last edited by drop_point; 10/03/23.

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Originally Posted by drop_point
Originally Posted by Feral_American
Originally Posted by drop_point
The .308 Winchester is not popular for long range competition shooting except disciplines that require its use per the rules. Otherwise, you'll rarely see .308 Winchester. PRS? Its mostly 6mm chamberings.


My humble experience doesn't mean much but any of the regional one day PRS matches I've been involved in, the 308 has it's own class. Out of a 100 shooter roster, 10 maybe a dozen shot 308. It's usually the guys with Mil/LEO background. Scores actually ran pretty much on par with the open class that I shot in.

Fast twisted high BC bullets in 6mm chamberings are vastly popular because if there was a better overall trade off they wouldn't be. The serious ones grope for every advantage they can find, the not-so-serious ones are following the herd.

A few outliers bought into the hype and got into it with a factory built 6.5 Creed and factory "match" ammo, but the alleged magical Creed never got them off the bottom of the score sheet that I can recall.

Yep, they have created "tactical class" over the last few years. When one does well in that class it is in spite of the cartridge. the 6mm offers a fraction of the wind deflection and much lower recoil (which means faster and more accurate corrections). A new cartridge cannot turn a bad shooter into a good shooter, but two equally skilled shooters the higher-BC bullet shooter is going to win every single time.

It isn't just a trend, they are better tools for the job.

Truth.


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Originally Posted by drop_point
Originally Posted by Feral_American
Originally Posted by drop_point
The .308 Winchester is not popular for long range competition shooting except disciplines that require its use per the rules. Otherwise, you'll rarely see .308 Winchester. PRS? Its mostly 6mm chamberings.


My humble experience doesn't mean much but any of the regional one day PRS matches I've been involved in, the 308 has it's own class. Out of a 100 shooter roster, 10 maybe a dozen shot 308. It's usually the guys with Mil/LEO background. Scores actually ran pretty much on par with the open class that I shot in.

Fast twisted high BC bullets in 6mm chamberings are vastly popular because if there was a better overall trade off they wouldn't be. The serious ones grope for every advantage they can find, the not-so-serious ones are following the herd.

A few outliers bought into the hype and got into it with a factory built 6.5 Creed and factory "match" ammo, but the alleged magical Creed never got them off the bottom of the score sheet that I can recall.

Yep, they have created "tactical class" over the last few years. When one does well in that class it is in spite of the cartridge. the 6mm offers a fraction of the wind deflection and much lower recoil (which means faster and more accurate corrections). A new cartridge cannot turn a bad shooter into a good shooter, but two equally skilled shooters the higher-BC bullet shooter is going to win every single time.

It isn't just a trend, they are better tools for the job.


No the one that can read wind will win every time. Also how far are individuals shooting in these PRS matches? If it’s less than 800 then they aren’t shooting LR they are shooting mid-range.


Originally Posted by Bricktop
Then STFU. The rest of your statement is superflous bullshit with no real bearing on this discussion other than to massage your own ego.

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Also in the f class word ie FT-O hardly anyone uses a 6mm. Vast majority use either the 284 or 7 prcw. 6mm are great for not so windy days. Also FT-R majority of shooters using 308’s are shooting bergers 200.20 others still use 185 juggernauts.


Originally Posted by Bricktop
Then STFU. The rest of your statement is superflous bullshit with no real bearing on this discussion other than to massage your own ego.

Suckin' on my titties like you wanted me.
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Originally Posted by 79S
Originally Posted by drop_point
Originally Posted by Feral_American
Originally Posted by drop_point
The .308 Winchester is not popular for long range competition shooting except disciplines that require its use per the rules. Otherwise, you'll rarely see .308 Winchester. PRS? Its mostly 6mm chamberings.


My humble experience doesn't mean much but any of the regional one day PRS matches I've been involved in, the 308 has it's own class. Out of a 100 shooter roster, 10 maybe a dozen shot 308. It's usually the guys with Mil/LEO background. Scores actually ran pretty much on par with the open class that I shot in.

Fast twisted high BC bullets in 6mm chamberings are vastly popular because if there was a better overall trade off they wouldn't be. The serious ones grope for every advantage they can find, the not-so-serious ones are following the herd.

A few outliers bought into the hype and got into it with a factory built 6.5 Creed and factory "match" ammo, but the alleged magical Creed never got them off the bottom of the score sheet that I can recall.

Yep, they have created "tactical class" over the last few years. When one does well in that class it is in spite of the cartridge. the 6mm offers a fraction of the wind deflection and much lower recoil (which means faster and more accurate corrections). A new cartridge cannot turn a bad shooter into a good shooter, but two equally skilled shooters the higher-BC bullet shooter is going to win every single time.

It isn't just a trend, they are better tools for the job.


No the one that can read wind will win every time. Also how far are individuals shooting in these PRS matches? If it’s less than 800 then they aren’t shooting LR they are shooting mid-range.


Ranges are from 400 something out to 1200 yards. Multiple targets per stage, multiple ranges per stage. Movement within the stage is required. Positional shooting. Prone, barricade, tank trap, tires, truck bed, car roof/hood, from INSIDE a car (driver's seat), rocks, logs, roof top, 3 story tower, conex boxes, concrete structures, etc. I've even shot from a "boat platform" hanging by 4 chains. 10 to 12 shots in a scripted sequence, under a 90 second time limit.

You need to know more than your cartridge to do well.


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What’s a normal prs match range??? I know it’s extremely hard for people to find places to shoot 1k yd and beyond. Yeah i know guys driving out to the desert and shooting.. I can see like a regional style match going to over 800 plus yds. Also to run these 6mm out to 1200 I’m going to assume they are using hit indicators.


Originally Posted by Bricktop
Then STFU. The rest of your statement is superflous bullshit with no real bearing on this discussion other than to massage your own ego.

Suckin' on my titties like you wanted me.
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Originally Posted by 79S
What’s a normal prs match range??? I know it’s extremely hard for people to find places to shoot 1k yd and beyond. Yeah i know guys driving out to the desert and shooting.. I can see like a regional style match going to over 800 plus yds. Also to run these 6mm out to 1200 I’m going to assume they are using hit indicators.

Plenty of stuff on the YouTube that can educate you about PRS.


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79S are you shooting the 3x600 next week? Fishtailing 6 minute wind shifts at BA 1000 yard line this morning.


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Originally Posted by Feral_American
Originally Posted by 79S
What’s a normal prs match range??? I know it’s extremely hard for people to find places to shoot 1k yd and beyond. Yeah i know guys driving out to the desert and shooting.. I can see like a regional style match going to over 800 plus yds. Also to run these 6mm out to 1200 I’m going to assume they are using hit indicators.

Plenty of stuff on the YouTube that can educate you about PRS.

I rather hear from you since you shoot it. Hell you are shooting from boat platform. In a way I find this odd, a guy who shoots ie you “prs” tells someone to go watch you tube videos about PRS.


Originally Posted by Bricktop
Then STFU. The rest of your statement is superflous bullshit with no real bearing on this discussion other than to massage your own ego.

Suckin' on my titties like you wanted me.
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Originally Posted by 79S
Originally Posted by Feral_American
Originally Posted by 79S
What’s a normal prs match range??? I know it’s extremely hard for people to find places to shoot 1k yd and beyond. Yeah i know guys driving out to the desert and shooting.. I can see like a regional style match going to over 800 plus yds. Also to run these 6mm out to 1200 I’m going to assume they are using hit indicators.

Plenty of stuff on the YouTube that can educate you about PRS.

I rather hear from you since you shoot it. Hell you are shooting from boat platform. In a way I find this odd, a guy who shoots ie you “prs” tells someone to go watch you tube videos about PRS.


I already laid it out for you above. Everything I've experienced in my time shooting the disapline in one day regional matches at six different venues in two mid Atlantic states. What more do you want?

Yeah, some clubs started using hit indicators the last couple years I shot, but the RO's call on the spotting scope was always final. Targets without hit indicators were repainted several times during a match.
A couple venues didn't go past 1000 yards, some others had 1100 and 1200. The match director can set up whatever COF he wants to, and you didn't know what you had until you signed in and got the stages handout.
Out of 100 or 110 shooters on a roster MOST of them only got to shoot that kind of distance on match day. Unless the club held a "practice" day between matches. I never bothered to pay for a practice day because I have out to 1175 on my own range.
You are absolutely right about the wind though, and no matter what you're shooting. If you couldn't figure that out you're pissing up a rope the whole day. You had to see more than one wind direction at a time at some of these places, and, morning wind at the start of the day likely wasn't going be the same wind at 4:00 when the match is wrapping up. A lot of things got shared amongst the shooters, including gear, but wind reads were kept close to the vest.
I don't know what more I can tell you. It's a disapline in it's own class as far as I'm concerned. A good shooter with a 1MOA rifle will do far better than a mediocre shooter with the best rifle. The way the stages are set up it's WAY more about the indian than the arrow. I wish it was around 30 or 40 years ago. Before bone on bone hip joints and tore up knees forced me out. Can't win at that game if you can't move through a stage.


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Originally Posted by MikeS
79S are you shooting the 3x600 next week? Fishtailing 6 minute wind shifts at BA 1000 yard line this morning.
I get into Phoenix early Thursday morning and the 3x600 kicks off at 1130. So not sure I will have time, I will be at Ben Avery Thursday to get my SR inspected by cmp armorers. plan on shooting Friday and Saturdays 800 aggregate then the EIC on Sunday.


Originally Posted by Bricktop
Then STFU. The rest of your statement is superflous bullshit with no real bearing on this discussion other than to massage your own ego.

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Originally Posted by 79S
Originally Posted by MikeS
79S are you shooting the 3x600 next week? Fishtailing 6 minute wind shifts at BA 1000 yard line this morning.
I get into Phoenix early Thursday morning and the 3x600 kicks off at 1130. So not sure I will have time, I will be at Ben Avery Thursday to get my SR inspected by cmp armorers. plan on shooting Friday and Saturdays 800 aggregate then the EIC on Sunday.

Maybe I'll see you sometime Thursday then. I only shoot prone these days. Otherwise I'll look out for you at the awards presentation. Not sure if they are having a dinner like they did at the March Western Games. Weather forecast looks decent enough.

Last edited by MikeS; 10/05/23.

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Originally Posted by MikeS
Originally Posted by 79S
Originally Posted by MikeS
79S are you shooting the 3x600 next week? Fishtailing 6 minute wind shifts at BA 1000 yard line this morning.
I get into Phoenix early Thursday morning and the 3x600 kicks off at 1130. So not sure I will have time, I will be at Ben Avery Thursday to get my SR inspected by cmp armorers. plan on shooting Friday and Saturdays 800 aggregate then the EIC on Sunday.

Maybe I'll see you sometime Thursday then. I only shoot prone these days. Otherwise I'll look out for you at the awards presentation. Not sure if they are having a dinner like they did at the March Western Games. Weather forecast looks decent enough.

It’s on Saturday, but I have a wedding to attend Saturday evening yay lucky me… lol


Originally Posted by Bricktop
Then STFU. The rest of your statement is superflous bullshit with no real bearing on this discussion other than to massage your own ego.

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Be sure to wear your match tee shirt to the reception 😄


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If you take the time to learn to shoot at distance with a .308 you will be in good shape once you move to something more competitive.

Last edited by foamantelope; 11/02/23.
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Originally Posted by foamantelope
If you take the time to learn to shoot at distance with a .308 you will be in good shape once you move to something more competitive.

The .308s were looking pretty competitive last Friday thru Sunday at our AZ State Palma Championships. At least 7 of the competitors are taking theirs to South South Africa next March representing the US, (or Canada) in the Long Range World Championship which is held every 4 years.

Picture from Sunday of the 900 yard line.



[Linked Image]


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Originally Posted by MikeS
Originally Posted by foamantelope
If you take the time to learn to shoot at distance with a .308 you will be in good shape once you move to something more competitive.

The .308s were looking pretty competitive last Friday thru Sunday at our AZ State Palma Championships. At least 7 of the competitors are taking theirs to South South Africa next March representing the US, (or Canada) in the Long Range World Championship which is held every 4 years.

Oliver M is off to a good start in South Africa. Dropped one point at 800 yards

Last edited by Mike70560; 03/09/24.
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Thanks for the heads up. I was just looking on the web page for results, need to check again. Ben L. should be texting me pictures throughout the matches via Signal.
Go USA!

Last edited by MikeS; 03/09/24.

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Found them on their Facebook link. Like the way they listed the wind bracket for 800 meters. 2 moa left to 6ish moa right. Give you a good feel of the conditions vs. scores.


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The must be shooting 5V targets. Oliver cleaned the 900 meter. He is first on the US team.

Jerry L is second. He dropped one @ 800 and 900. Finished with 148-14V. I know him, shoots in TX.

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