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My 1924 .300 takedown say "Savage 1899 model" on top of the receiver? Every source seems to say the 1899 became the 99 in 1920?

It was a little later than 1920. Opinions vary.
Savage had 1899 marked material to use up.

They started stamping the SAVAGE 1899 MODEL on top of the receiver in late 1920. The first model 99's came out in the fall of 1921.

But.. Savage didn't make any physical alterations to the 99's from the late 1899's in 1921. They just added the 300 Savage cartridge, expanded the 22HP and 250-3000 cartridges to more models, and assigned the model names.

The belief is that since Savage didn't make any physical changes to the guns, that they didn't feel a need to change the stamp. Savage did change the stamp in 1926, right about the time they started making changes to barrels/etc.

The changing from the use of 1899 to just 99 was not tied to any changes in the models, it was just an 'across the board' change dropping the first two digits when they represented years. This happened sometime in 1923 and was not because of any changes ion models. The earliest material I find using just a two digit date is a Jan 1924 dated catalog and the change on all guns would not have taken some time. The first new model to use a two digit date was the Model 23. Another example is the Model 1904, it became the model 04 in the catalogs without any changes being made to the gun, but in this case they still stamped the full year on the guns. Parts catalogs also started referring to older models using only two digits but usually done as '03 or '20.

Attached pages are from a Jan 1923 price catalog, Savage still considered their new line of lever actions as Model 1899's.





I did not have a Murray's when I first started collecting Savage's since I was collecting the 22's (and not 22HP's), so I learned about the lever actions from the catalogs, so I did not know of the made-up designations for early 1899's based on telegraph codes, so to me, based on the catalogs, an 1899-B and a 99-B were just different ways to refer to the same rifle - a 26" round barrel take-down, that's the only use of 1899-B in any Savage literature.... and people started correcting me... well... technically who's right? ADDED - Marlin and Winchester also went to two digit years in their Models around this same time.

Figuring out what Savage did 100 years is usually possible.
Figuring out why Savage did something 100 years ago is usually speculative.

Thanks guys!

Yes, Savage continued using the 1899 names for a year or so in their catalogs and pricelists. Advertising though, they mostly went with Model 99 starting fall of 1921.

So to follow most closely with Murray's as well as to avoid massive confusion:
1) If the model name is set by the telegraph code, it's an 1899. The 250-3000 is also an 1899, obviously.
2) If the model name is set by Savage in the catalogs, it's a 99. This also coincides with the 300 Savage introduction, as best we can tell.

This avoids the unnecessary confusion of having an entire generation of 1899 models that only exist on catalog pages for 12-18 months, and creates things like a round barreled 1899C in 300 Savage.

In my book at the top of each of the early 99 models, I state: "Catalogued as "1899x" in 1921-1922".

Here is an October 1921 ad introducing the new 300 Savage. ".. it is adapted to both the Model '99 lever action and the model '20 bolt action featherweight rifles."

So I see the 150 grain was the original loading for the 300. Did the 180 grain loading follow close behind?

Not positive on this.. I see it in the 1927 catalog. Don't see it earlier, but I don't have a full set.

The 300 base to start of the shoulder dimension is longer than the 250; the shoulder angle is different; the 300 has less case taper; and overall case length is different. How is this “the same dimension as the popular 250-3000 except that the neck is 30 caliber”?

By your observation it appears the news of the 1899 stamp becoming a 99 stamp in 1920 was, somewhat, exaggerated.

In 1920 they went from "no stamp" to an 1899 stamp.
In 1926 they went from 1899 stamp to 99 stamp.

Artistic license for saying they're both short action cartridges.

[quote=moosemike]My 1924 .300 takedown say "Savage 1899 model" on top of the receiver? "

For whatever reason Savage started marking the receiver ring at around 23x,xxx with the Model 1899 stamping. That continued till around 280,xxx at which time it was changed to the "99" marking.

Thanks. Mine is 260xxx

My 99D, 2704XX, has the 1899 Model stamping. It was accepted from the factory 2/24/1925 and shipped the next day.

270,xxx "Savage 1899 model" 26" takedown 30-30 with crescent buttplate

271,2xx "Savage 1899 model" 99D 300 Savage

271,1xx "Savage 1899 model" 26" takedown 300 Savage with crescent buttplate

2780xx 99G 303 1899 marking
2909xx 99G 300 99 marking

I've seen the SAVAGE 1899 MODEL stamp on rifles up to 280,000.
The model 99 stamp definitely shows up by 286,xxx and pretty sure it's there at 283,xxx. That would be spring, 1926.

Interesting!

Okay, gotta ask. I have a 99F from about 1922, chambered in 303 - 243,xxx. It is stamped “Model 1899.. on the receiver ring. I thought there was a scratch on the barrel just to the right of the front sight. I zoomed in and figured out that it was a patent stamp. Don’t have that stamp on any other 99’s.
How long did they use that stamp? And over what time period?