Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunting Rifles AD's and the M700 .... Please Help

Howdy Gents,

I just received my first M700, its a SS .25-06 Mtn rifle tucked into McMillan fibergrain stock. The rifle really looks nice and fits and feels great when put to the shoulder. I haven't fired the rifle yet.

Now the problem. As I was checking out the rifle, I cycled the safety and the rifle dry fired. Remembering some previous posts it was possible my finger was touching the trigger ... it was outside the guard but it could have been touching ... not sure. So I cycled the bolt and cycled the safety several times and on about the fourth or fifth cycle the rifle fired again and my finger was nowhere near the trigger. I repeted this cycle several times and the rifle dry fired about 20% of the time.

How can I remedy this malady? I decided to keep this rifle (it really is a nice piece). If I put on an aftermarket trigger, such as a Timney or Shillen ... will this fix the problem? How about an aftermarket trigger and a Gentry winged safety? I like the wing style safeties. Would getting rid of the factory safety and trigger cure this problem? The trigger as of now has a little play in it and a light pull ... about 3 pounds maybe a little less. I could not get the rifle to dry fire with the safety off ... and I gave it some decent bumps ... the highest of about 18" on a carpeted floor.

I would really appreciate any help on this topic. I know this is a volatile topic at this site ... and I wouldn't bring it up if I wasn't sure there was a problem. Please anti-M700 fans no need for flames here!!! It is a problem which I want to fix ... so M700 fans, please don't tell me I don't know what I am talking about. For those who can help on this topic ....Thanx.

Sounds like your sear engagement has been tampered with in some way. Either the engagement screw has been adjusted incorrectly, or some amateur gunsmith filed on the sear or cam and screwed it up. Or, in some cases, fitting the rifle into the new stock caused the trigger geometry to change due to stress on the trigger housing or trigger/action fit.
You need to take it to a good gunsmith to check the angle of the cam, regardless if you replace the trigger. If the angle is filed or stoned incorrectly, this will always be an unsafe condition. Also, check to see if the trigger housing is hanging up anywhere on the stock inletting and if the action is inletted deep enough for the trigger to fit up properly to the action. You may need to replace the firing pin/cam assembly as well as the trigger to make a proper working safety or it may be as simple as a little extra inletting.- Just my 2 cent's worth.- Sheister

I had this same thing happen on one my 700's. My gunsmith replaced the remington safety with the gentry safety and the problem was cured. For maximum peace of mind and improved trigger pull you could go with an aftermarket trigger like the Shilen you mentioned. I heard that when gentry installs his safety and a new trigger at the same time he is using the rifle basix trigger.

I like to have my hunting rifles around three pounds and i expect them to be safe because a good gunsmith set them at the desired weight. Only one out my four 700's ever had the probelm you described. I don't know if it was the design, metal fatigue or debris in the trigger that caused the defective one to malfunction. It got my attention in a hurry. After the gentry saftey I have taken the same rifle out many times since with no problems.

an add-on to sheister's note:
the 700 has a very easy to adjust trigger. one of the things that many people who do their own trigger work tamper w/ is the sear engagement because it is simple to get at and appears easy to adjust (fwiw, when i do my trigger work on 700's, i don't mess w/ this... if it needs to be fixed, i let a 'smith handle it).

As big time said, the 700 trigger is easy to adjust. If someone has messed with the sear engagement you can fix it. Check here:

http://www.snipercountry.com/RemingtonTriggers.htm

Hope this takes care of your problem.

avagadro,

It's not an issue with the safety. I had one do the same thing and it was an issue with the connector.

Most likely the trigger was adjusted improperly with too little pull weight spring tension to reliably return the connector. If the spring was cut or altered in any way it will need to be replaced.

There is probably a very small amount of dust or grime in the trigger housing that is providing just enough resistance that the connector can't return. You can blast it out with Gun Scrubber and that may help in the short run. Do not put any oil in there after you clean it.

In my case I just replaced the whole trigger assembly with a Shilen because I knew I would never fully trust the thing again. I am also of a curious nature and wanted to take the thing apart and see how it works so I could understand the problem.

Glad to hear you finally got the rifle, sorry you're having trouble with it. If it was mine I wouldn't take any chances and it would already be on its way to a competent gunsmith. Good luck.

Ditto! Random acts of kindness are great. Random acts of discharge ain't!

Get thee to a gunsmith!

Good Luck,

BMT

I am fortunate in that my brother is a gunsmith in a Remington authorized repair shop. If I do not know what I am doing, I take it to him. Safety is not something I want to play with, and since your rifle is used (I assumed that since it is in a aftermarket stock) and someone else has played with it - I'd take it in just to be sure I didn't miss something else that had been "improved."

I adjust my own triggers on many guns. But then I know what I did and did not do - with a used gun, you just don't know. Take it to a 'smith.

I talked to the former owner and he told me he adjusted the trigger to a wieght that may be below where it should be. He also sent me a couple of references on how to return the trigger pull back to where it should be. I will probably just send my rifle to Gentry. He will install the 3 postion safety for the same price I can buy if from Brownells and as I stated before, I like the wing style safeties.

Regarding triggers, who uses what? I have heard of shillen, rifle basix, jewell, and timney. What is the general consensus of these triggers. I know Celt uses Shillen, does anyone know what Charlie Sisk uses?

One thing I'm confused about though. CAS mentioned the trigger could be set too light and the previous owner stated he set the trigger light. So why doesn't the rifle fire when bumped really hard? But will only fire when the safety is disengaged?

Again Thanx for the insight.

George,

Beleive me, I am no expert, so take this accordingly.

When my trigger failed, it would never fire when bumped no matter how hard I dropped it on the ground. The best I can tell AD's only happen when the connector does not fully return. Since the sear is lifted off the connector when the safety is on, it would not allow an AD when the bolt is closed. When the safety is let off there is no connector there to support the sear and thus it drops allowing the coking piece to ride over and the pin to drop.

Once the connector is back in place the likelyhood of an AD from a fall is no different than any other properly working rifle. In my opinion AD from dropping a rifle occurs when there is too little sear engagement. AD from a non-returning connector is independent of sear engagement.

AD's don't happen with M700's... just ask any of the "experts" on this forum...

"he adjusted the trigger to a wieght that may be below where it should be"

That is the problem then. The fix is to increase the pull weight, make sure there is .025" of trigger/sear engagement, and make sure there is a little bit of over travel.

Blaine

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Lawdog

Blaine
I am certain you understand how to adjust a 700 trigger and there is no way that you should tell a guy to just reset the weight and check the sear engagement... You know there is a process that really should be followed and involves starting from scratch everytime...

While I do not think there is any rocket science in a 700 trigger job, don't you think a little better explaination is in order? I only pounce on you this way because you have unsettled a lot of electrons to explain your views on the 700 trigger and passed on a chance to give a good background. (BTW no offense intended) <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

George
The Snipercountry link has good info and is the way I have been doing them for a long time... I would suggest the trigger weight spring be replaced with a lighter version and that things get thoroughly cleaned before adjustment. For a replacement trigger I prefer the Rifle Basix. I just installed a 700 Timney in a seven and it gave me fits.

But if you like those goofy fairy wing safeties <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

avagadro,

I have 2 Sisk rifles, one has factory and the other Jewell. There are plenty of excellent aftermarket triggers available, but my vote goes to Jewell.

Good Luck

True Eyes

Art,

I explained more in my reply to the PM he sent me and offered to do it for him when he comes down to shoot my 416. I didn't tell how to make the adjustments, I just said that those adjustments need to be made. I kept my answer short, to the point, and in general terms so folks would know there is a proper way to set up a 700 trigger for trouble free operation.

Blaine

i may get flamed for this ,but a good gunsmith can set your factory trigger ,to a decent hunting weight,also i like timney triggers